Anyone else excited for what Ableton has been working on?

[Trancit]

For the non-native English speakers here (at least American English): saying someone is "whining" about something is generally derogatory.

An equivalent of "whining" in any language is generally negative, as it means ill-spirited, unfounded and unjust criticism

For all germans here... what I tried to say was "Jammern auf hohem Niveau" which basically shall only say that something is already 95% there and claiming for the missing 5% would be perhaps a "nice-to have" but nothing essential...
...or otherway round: it could be much worse than the current situation and one can actually be happy with what we got already...

If this all makes no sense to you... please just ignore... it´s really nothing important for the topic and again I beg your pardon for the misunderstanding...

[Trancit]

how do you do clip automation in the arranger in Bitwig??

"A" is the default shortcut to open automation panel, then switch to Clip mode.

Here I'm scaling an absolute automation with a multiplicative one spanning 4 loops:

But this isn´t at all what Ableton´s clip envelopes are alike, right???

What I mean:
I really want to have the "modulation" inside of the clip... no automation lanes at all... everything inside the clip!!
For me that´s important because :
1. automation copies over (if you want so) when you copy/duplicate a clip... but it doesn´t copy over if you loop a clip and duplicate the clip by draggin it out...
2. Automation is automation and modulation is modulation... I mean I don´t want to clutter the automation lanes with modulation I did on the sound...

This is an example where I find Ableton ahead Bitwig... but that´s personal preference...

[antic604]

I really want to have the "modulation" inside of the clip... no automation lanes at all... everything inside the clip!!
For me that´s important because :
1. automation copies over (if you want so) when you copy/duplicate a clip... but it doesn´t copy over if you loop a clip and duplicate the clip by draggin it out...
2. Automation is automation and modulation is modulation... I mean I don´t want to clutter the automation lanes with modulation I did on the sound...

Sure you can, just use additive clip automation. Then it's added to whatever value current parameter has (whether it's fixed, automated or hand-controlled) and it copies and loops with the clip. The lighter blue solid area is the final composite parameter value. You always have to pay attention which automation mode (clip or track) you're in and what's the state of "free running" and "loop" buttons is

EDIT: though I've to admit drawing sines or whatever with those new 10.1 tools is much easier

[antic604]

...

...and you can combine both additive and multiplicative CLIP automations to work as modulation around current value of the parameter

[Trancit]

...
...and you can combine both additive and multiplicative CLIP automations to work as modulation around current value of the parameter

But everything you do you do basically on Automation lanes... that´s what I don´t want...

But anyway... for my taste the answer is no... clip envelopes like in Ableton (which do not appear at all in the automation lanes) aren´t possible in Bitwig´s Arranger...
But thx anyway...

[antic604]

But anyway... for my taste the answer is no... clip envelopes like in Ableton (which do not appear at all in the automation lanes) aren´t possible in Bitwig´s Arranger...
But thx anyway...

Even if I showed you that they are?

Notice I never touched automation lane and my automation editor is in 'clip' mode. What you see in Arranger is not automation - it's level of parameter based on current knob position. Automation doesn't move when I'm adjusting the knob manually. I think the functionality is the same and we're arguing over semantics

Please show me something - other than this new automation shapes & rectangle editing added in 10.1 - that you think Bitwig cannot do.

[apoclypse]

But anyway... for my taste the answer is no... clip envelopes like in Ableton (which do not appear at all in the automation lanes) aren´t possible in Bitwig´s Arranger...
But thx anyway...

Even if I showed you that they are?

Notice I never touched automation lane and my automation editor is in 'clip' mode. What you see in Arranger is not automation - it's level of parameter based on current knob position. Automation doesn't move when I'm adjusting the knob manually. I think the functionality is the same and we're arguing over semantics

Please show me something - other than this new automation shapes & rectangle editing added in 10.1 - that you think Bitwig cannot do.

Just wanted to upvote you because I had no clue Bitwig could do that. That's going to be handy in the future. Thanks!

[Trancit]

Even if I showed you that they are?

Notice I never touched automation lane and my automation editor is in 'clip' mode. What you see in Arranger is not automation - it's level of parameter based on current knob position. Automation doesn't move when I'm adjusting the knob manually. I think the functionality is the same and we're arguing over semantics
...

It´s nothing against Bitwig... it´s just my personal reference...

EDIT: Just looked again at your gif´s and ok, it´s something I could live with too... so I revise my statement from before...

[antic604]

It´s nothing against Bitwig... it´s just my personal reference...

I get that. I'm not trying to one-up you (and Live by extension just to understand what is this modulation feature that Live has and Bitwig - allegedly - doesn't. They're implemented differently, but I think they're very similar if not the same in practice

[anttimaatteri]

Have you tried REA . . . , oh never mind

yes. since today. with a nice lcs zerodarksix/flat6 skin ;D.
shit happens
neither ableton nor renoise nor bitwig are living in the age of SCORE EDITING - hence i started doing scored music stuff etc...^^