Honest question for mac users

[fese]

OP, great thread!

Yes, this topic has never been discussed before! About time!

[BertKoor]

Right. I just want to start by saying that I in no way want to be rude, snobby, etc., I'm honestly just interested. Also, before anyone thinks of calling me a fanboy, I have used Windows, Mac, and Linux all for pretty long periods of time, so I'm not just bashing Mac without having experienced it. Also, please read all of this before responding.

I get all the talk about build quality, reliability, core audio > DirectX with mac OS etc. But I believe this isn't true: All Apple's computers are impossible to fix and upgrade yourself and their laptops thermal throttle to hell, and ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.

I do know mac OS has way less background processes, but for the price of an entry level mac, you can get a PC so good it is unaffected by this anyway, same for ASIO's lag. Example:

My current laptop (£999):
I7 - 9750h (6 cores, 12 threads, 2.7 ghz, boosts to 4, and no it doesnt thermal throttle), 8GB DDR4 - 2666, 256GB NVME SSD, RTX 2060 (better GPU than anything in an apple laptop RN, and it does make a difference for music for anyone who uses Serum as it is GPU - accelerated), so light I can't tell whether it's in my bag or not.

Equivalent price macbook (entry level macbook air):
1.1GHZ dual core i3 that turbos to 3.2ghz (but wont bc it literally isnt cooled at all, as in the heat pipes do not reach the CPU), 8GB DDR4 - 3733 (I know what you're thinking, but RAM speed is proven not to make a big performance difference in anything but GPU - intensive tasks and thats only if you have an iGPU), 256GB non - NVME SSD, no GPU whatsoever (weak integrated graphics). Being light is the only positive I can think of, but mine is unnoticeably light anyway.

And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?

Edit: Just making absolutely sure everyone is aware I'm asking out of interest, not to bash people's personal choices.

What's the question?

[revvy]

Right. I just want to start by saying that I in no way want to be rude, snobby, etc., I'm honestly just interested. Also, before anyone thinks of calling me a fanboy, I have used Windows, Mac, and Linux all for pretty long periods of time, so I'm not just bashing Mac without having experienced it. Also, please read all of this before responding.

I get all the talk about build quality, reliability, core audio > DirectX with mac OS etc. But I believe this isn't true: All Apple's computers are impossible to fix and upgrade yourself and their laptops thermal throttle to hell, and ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.

I do know mac OS has way less background processes, but for the price of an entry level mac, you can get a PC so good it is unaffected by this anyway, same for ASIO's lag. Example:

My current laptop (£999):
I7 - 9750h (6 cores, 12 threads, 2.7 ghz, boosts to 4, and no it doesnt thermal throttle), 8GB DDR4 - 2666, 256GB NVME SSD, RTX 2060 (better GPU than anything in an apple laptop RN, and it does make a difference for music for anyone who uses Serum as it is GPU - accelerated), so light I can't tell whether it's in my bag or not.

Equivalent price macbook (entry level macbook air):
1.1GHZ dual core i3 that turbos to 3.2ghz (but wont bc it literally isnt cooled at all, as in the heat pipes do not reach the CPU), 8GB DDR4 - 3733 (I know what you're thinking, but RAM speed is proven not to make a big performance difference in anything but GPU - intensive tasks and thats only if you have an iGPU), 256GB non - NVME SSD, no GPU whatsoever (weak integrated graphics). Being light is the only positive I can think of, but mine is unnoticeably light anyway.

And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?

Edit: Just making absolutely sure everyone is aware I'm asking out of interest, not to bash people's personal choices.

What's the question?

I think it was more of a dog whistle post to excite the more rabid users of 'both' (not really!) platforms. And as we can see, usual suspects coning on board and I expect maximum shitting on Mac users. Yummy!

[AnX]

What's the question?

yeah, i missed it too.... honest or not

[revvy]

Oh well whatever

[Gamma-UT]

And there's more. Mac OS is harder to fix problems with and in my few months of using it I came across more of them than I have in 11 years of Windows usage (such as files and apps behaving weirdly), less intuitive to use (again I used it for months so it's not that I didn't take the time to learn the basics), you actually still can get malware on mac OS (only time I've ever gotten it was on mac), and there's more but this is already getting really long, and I'd rathewr hear what you have to say first. So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac (if you're using a DAW that isn't logic, I know why you'd want one if you use that obviously)?

If the question was "why does Dafydd Powell want a Mac?", then the answer would, based on that litany of woes, be get a PC. You clearly like it better.

But it wasn't. It was Leading Question from Troll 101 right down to the "honest question" bit, which is practically always a red flag for dishonesty. Why does your experience affects other people's choices? Particularly if they don't reflect experience those people have had.

[paulm12]

Alright, fine, I’ll bite.
I used PCs for years, and always had problems with lemons, having to reinstall operating systems, etc. I thought this was part of what it meant to own a computer. I got my first MacBook Pro in the late 2000s because I wanted Logic. First solid computer I ever got, and I still have it and it works with no problems (over a decade old). I have had other MacBooks and Mac Desktops since then, also with very few to no problems (although I do think Apple’s engineering has gone down a bit recently and don’t plan on switching to ARM at any time).
As for cost, it doesn’t make sense to compare a build-your-own PC to a customized Mac. If you compare a similarly pre-built PC to a Mac, you’ll end up with a much smaller gap, with Macs being more expensive of course. However, if you factor in TCO (total cost of ownership), you get that PCs are 3 times the cost to manage and have twice the number of support calls on average.
For music production, I think Macs are the clear winner (for YEARS I ran FL and Live on a MacBook Pro running Windows XP because Vista was a fiasco, it was the best running windows computer I ever had). They have a better internal soundcard than most windows computers with comparatively less latency. Most PC users have to get an external soundcard, especially when it comes to laptops. With a Mac, it is nice to not have to bring an interface when traveling.
When you buy a Mac, you know what you’re getting. No BS bloatware, no cheap components or corners cut on the audio side, and good support if you ever do have a problem. With a PC, you can get bounced back between Microsoft and your CSM (Computer System Manufacturers) when you run into a problem
If you do any sort of development, I find that a Unix-based operating system is a clear winner. Yeah you can argue about Powershell and OS/2 all you want, but Unix is better in a lot of ways in my opinion. Plus its familiar for those of us who do work on servers.
To me, the big drawback to OSX is simply software support, however for me the pros far outweigh the cons.
With a Mac, if you do decide to upgrade, you can restore your entire system (VSTs and all) to its previous state without having to edit any registry files or reinstall anything. You get integration with cloud backup (although iCloud now works with windows), which keeps all my performance laptops/backups in sync with each other whenever I add a song to one. If you’re recording, you can be pretty sure the computer you get will be QUIET.
I like not building my own computer because that means if I ever do have a problem nobody can blame anything I did. I can go on and on. People make great music on both Macs and Windows. If you don’t like Macs, fine, but those of us who do have our reasons

[revvy]

^ I predict that at least one poster will divide your reply into fifteen segments and then respond with five times what you wrote to each one. With generalisations and insults to boot.

[counterparty]

At the price-point you're discussing (a low/mid-range PC vs a low-end mac), where value-for-money is your priority, it makes sense to get a PC.

I'm a software dev, and generally I'm going to try to use the right tool for the job. If I really need a server I'm probably going to use Linux (because it's cheap and unix-based, and has a good command-line). If I'm setting up a corporate network I'm probably going to use Windows (because Active Directory/Office/general business integration). If I'm training a neural network or setting up a web service it's probably going to go into the cloud.

For the computer that I'm going to use at home, the computer that I use the most for fun, I'm going to pick the one with the best user experience and the least maintenance. For me that's a Mac.. the interface is very nice (plus it's unix-based, which is great for working on programming projects outside of work), the hardware is generally great, and I spend very little time maintaining the system. Most of the musicians I know IRL use Apple as well, so it's a natural fit.

[Dafydd Powell]

OP, great thread!

Thanks! (You're not being sarcastic, right?)

[Urs]

So the question is, considering all of the above, why could you possibly want a mac

The cost of development tools on Windows is somewhere beyond 1000€ for me. That exceeds the price of a decent Mac Mini. With Apple the development tools are free, hence I get the whole thing for less money. Just to put some perspective on the nonsensical pricing argument.

(There are free editions of development tools for Windows as well, but one needs to meet certain criteria to use them, which I do not.)

[imrae]

ASIO is literally the exact same thing as core audio, albeit with an unnoticeable amount more lag.

No

[revvy]

OP, great thread!

Thanks! (You're not being sarcastic, right?)

Well you started another PC v Mac thread, so...

[canadian_moose]

I have a Macbook Pro 2015 laptop (which my work pays for) and a Windows desktop workstation. Love them both for different reasons.

Honestly, as much as I love the Macbook if it wasn't for the fact that the money doesn't come out of my own pocket, I don't think I could justify the cost. That's just me of course......

[Glu3]

I can feel you, I have been switching between Mac and PC 4 times and now I have 2 laptops, 1 Macbook 2015 and 1 HP Probook. I would defo go for a MacPro if I want performance, there are many YT videos of people upgrading their old Macpro to get interesting performance/price ratio. Nowaday Laptop PC become very competitive vs Macbook and I think people like me just get a Macbook because of the MacOS.