Melda tilt EQ option with contols like GoodHertz Tiltshift, but realtime spectrum like FabFilter?

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Annabanna
KVRist
275 posts since 21 Jul, 2018

Post Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:52 pm

Looking through the various Melda EQ's and EQ modules for MSF, and not quite seeing what I'm looking for, but it's possible I've overlooked it, or that it can be cobbled together.

I'm looking for three things. One is GoodHertz TiltShift style control over tilt EQ where I can tell it to leave everything alone below 300Hz, then rise by 6dB from exactly 300Hz to exactly 8kHz (as opposed to figuring out a midpoint, messing around with Q factors, or other much less intuitive, more time consuming, and ultimately less exact methods).

The second is a live spectrum display. This is, unfortunately, missing from TiltShift, so I always have to use it in conjunction with a stock EQ, FabFilter, MAnalyzer, or something else to see the spectrum in order to clarify what needs dialing in. It's hard to beat FF for that sort of graphic ease of use... though I don't like the way their tilt option works.

The third is continuously variable filters. Tiltshift has these, and they're wonderful as I nearly never end up selecting exactly 6, 12, or 24 dB / ocatave filters when given a continuously variable choice. Unfortunately, theirs are limited to 48 whereas options to 120 would suit me better.

I mention the third because it's part of Tiltshift and something I use all the time, but that doesn't really have to be in the same plug, and I just noticed today that all the filter options I was looking at in various M modules were fixed intervals.

Are at least the first two (TiltShift style conrol and live spectrum display) available within one of the existing EQ's. If so, I seem to have missed it, so which should I be taking a closer look at?

jmg8
KVRAF
2451 posts since 9 Jul, 2015 from UK

Post Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:48 pm

MAutoDynamicEQ - Low Slope and High Slope.
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Annabanna
KVRist
275 posts since 21 Jul, 2018

Post Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:06 am

jmg8 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:48 pm
MAutoDynamicEQ - Low Slope and High Slope.
I'm not seeing it. AFAIK, those are individual tilt options, and setting two in opposition doesn't make them endpoints of a single rise, nor does it limit that rise to area between them. If I set a high slope from 300 hz, it rises across the entire spectrum. Setting another equal and opposite one at 8k doesn't cause the rise to then limit itself to the space between 300 and 8k, but rather they ignore each other, and each affects the entire spectrum above or below the given point. So AFAIK, it's not only not limiting the rise to the specific amount or region I'm trying to specify, but there's no way to get specific about it at all. Actually, looking at the graph, it's clear that the slopes don't cancel each other out, and you don't end up with "flat" on either side of the endpoints... and you also don't end up with the correct degree of rise between them.

I'm not seeing it. The genius of the GH setup is that it works EXACTLY as one would intuit. It's difficult to describe to someone who hasn't used it, and difficult to live without once you see how much more intuitive and precise it is. I probably have 30 instances on my current track.

Want zero change under 300 hz, then a 6dB rise to 8k, and zero change beyond that above? It just does exactly that in seconds. Having used it, it's not only frustrating trying to use any tilt that doesn't work this way, but I can't think of a valid reason why any tilt SHOULDN'T work this way. People don't think in terms of poles or Q factor. We think in terms of leave the vocal range alone and don't cause peaks that overlap with the snare. We're also not inclined to do calculus to figure out how to dial in the exact value of rise between those two endpoints that we can easily look at a graph and see we need.

AFAIK, the high and low slope options in Dynamic EQ are independent and don't interact. Trying to recreate the above scenario, if I set a high slope at 300 hz for +6dB, that rise occurs across the entire rest of the spectrum, so it's +6dB at 20hz. Trying to use an opposing low slope at 8k doesn't act as an endpoint in that the rise is not now constrained to the 300-8k range. Rather than solving one problem, it creates 3. It's now not flat above 8k, not flat below 300, and the degree of rise between them is wrong. I just don't see any way of dialing something in correctly with those controls.

I only had a bit of chance to look so far, but I also haven't come across continuously variable filter options. That's another thing I never knew I needed until I had it with TiltShift. Just "using my ears" without looking at the values, I don't think I've ever chosen one of the usual suspects (12,24, etc) when given the continuously variable option of just dialing in what sounds right. Is this option on some other module in MSF? At the moment, I'd doing processing outside of MSF for a voice I'm working on because I dont' see how to dial int he 15dB/octave or so filter slope I need. I suppose it might be possible to dial this in with the high/low slope and gain, though I doubt the gain goes anywhere near deep enough to get the desired slope.

jmalge
KVRist
68 posts since 31 Jul, 2016

Post Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:28 am

Closest thing I can find to what you're looking for in MSF would be the FreeformEqualizer module in the FX section, e.g.:

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MP1 - MP4 control the freq and gain of the starting/ending point of the ramp.

The good news is this works (mostly) and you get a spectrum graph.

The bad news is I don't see a way to display these values in dB or Hz as appropriate; since the Multiparameters are moving XY values in a freeform graph, which are expressed in percents.

Annabanna
KVRist
275 posts since 21 Jul, 2018

Post Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:10 pm

jmalge wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:28 am
...

The good news is this works (mostly) and you get a spectrum graph.

The bad news is I don't see a way to display these values in dB or Hz as appropriate; since the Multiparameters are moving XY values in a freeform graph, which are expressed in percents.
Will take a look next chance I get to load it up, but without hz and dB, it's likely problematic as I have a very precise mix/master system with very specific frequency carveouts, etc. That's why I've been using TiltShift for a few years even though it lacks the spectrum display. It's just so much quicker and easier to dial in the exact rise between the exact endpoints I need than anything else I've found... so much so that I've been willing to always have to use a separate plugin with it to see the spectrum.

I wish FabFilter made something that works like it... but they don't. I've been slowly replacing some of my old standbys with custom Meda incarnations, though, so I'll take a look at any patch that might be helpful.

Any module or workaround that can do the continuously variable filter slope? TiltShift does it in 1dB increments from 6 to 48 dB/octave, but I'd really love to be able to do it truly continuously from 0 to 120. I've got a particular use in mind if this is doable.

jmalge
KVRist
68 posts since 31 Jul, 2016

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:22 am

Annabanna wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:10 pm
Will take a look next chance I get to load it up, but without hz and dB, it's likely problematic as I have a very precise mix/master system with very specific frequency carveouts, etc.
Okay...I found a hack that allows you to see what you're setting the Hz and dB values to:

Code: Select all

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This works by taking advantage of the Multiparameter's Value mode set to "By first parameter" and then setting the first parameter to a dummy module (can be disabled as in this example). So I used an EQ as the dummy module, and stuck it disabled in an unused lane. Then made each MP that controlled the XY values in Freeform EQ also control the dummy module, but put the dummy module first. I suppose you could also bury the dummy module inside a Modular module if you need all six lanes in the FX section. Just make sure the ranges are the same between the freeform EQ and the dummy EQ module.

Edit: I don't know of a way to do a variable slope filter with 1 degree increments or less in Melda. That's probably a feature request. If it could be implemented such that I could automate it without clicks/pops/etc., I'd certainly use it.

Annabanna
KVRist
275 posts since 21 Jul, 2018

Post Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:58 am

jmalge wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:22 am
Annabanna wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:10 pm
Will take a look next chance I get to load it up, but without hz and dB, it's likely problematic as I have a very precise mix/master system with very specific frequency carveouts, etc.
Okay...I found a hack that allows you to see what you're setting the Hz and dB values to:

...
Awesome. Thanks. I think I'll get a chance to try it out tomorrow.

As for the continuously variable filter, I'm on the same page about automation. That's exactly what I'd like to do with it and why I'd like it to go to 0.

Even just the basic ability is unbelievably useful, though. Try it with something like Tiltshift, close your eyes, and just dial in what sounds right. The chances of you ever landing on one of the only options available on most filters is not good... which means they weren't the best option yet were the only ones available.

Understandable in most plugs since they're so limited in other ways, but Melda in particular tends to be a powerhouse of flexibility, so it seems to me very odd that other plugs could be flexible in this core and very useful way when Melda is not. I mean... it's not subtle or nitpicking at all. The jump going from something like 6 to 12 or 12 to 24 is dramatic, so it's immensely practical to be able to have at least some degree of precision rather than what amounts to disparate presets. It's like having an EQ that only adjusts in 6dB increments. Maybe you can learn to live with it if it's the only thing you can find, but it can't compare to the usability of the same thing that gives 0.1dB increments.

But yeah... add the ability to automate that smoothly, and it opens up a world of creative possibilities. Glad to see someone else recognizes that. Seems like most folks have just accepted that a few fixed slopes are a given. Just try using variable slopes. You won't go back. No idea how they do it... whether it's a simple thing to program, or whether the digital versions mimic the actual pole filters, so they are actually using fixed with some kind of parallel to dial intermediate values or whatever. I do know it works, though, and that 6, 12, 24, and 48 slopes almost never end up being the best option.

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