Exponential Audio Verbs: PhoenixVerb, Nimbus, R4. Your Thoughts?

[filulilu]

For starters, a hardware reverb is potentially a lot more than a bunch of algorithms, even if it is a digital one.

Like what?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I really wanted to like R4 but I much preferred the sound of Lexicon PCM or Valhalla Vintage Verb.

there cant be THAT much difference between PCM and R4....

And why not?

Just because the algorithms have been developed by the same person?

Agree. I don't think Michael Carnes set out to clone the PCM verbs when he started Exponential. I think he wanted to take his knowledge and create "better" algorithms. Whether he did that or not will be up to each listener's taste but I don't see any reason to think the PCM series and Exponential verbs would sound alike just because the same person was involved. That'd be like saying two songs by the same artist can't be THAT different, or two paintings by the same painter can't be THAT different. Why not? Some people try not try not to repeat themselves.

[vitocorleone123]

I really wanted to like R4 but I much preferred the sound of Lexicon PCM or Valhalla Vintage Verb.

there cant be THAT much difference between PCM and R4....

And why not?

Just because the algorithms have been developed by the same person?

Agree. I don't think Michael Carnes set out to clone the PCM verbs when he started Exponential. I think he wanted to take his knowledge and create "better" algorithms. Whether he did that or not will be up to each listener's taste but I don't see any reason to think the PCM series and Exponential verbs would sound alike just because the same person was involved. That'd be like saying two songs by the same artist can't be THAT different, or two paintings by the same painter can't be THAT different. Why not? Some people try not try not to repeat themselves.

They may have a familial sound (long time since I used PCM), but the EA verbs aren't clones.

A lot of preference will have to do with context and genre. Context, in that if you're jamming out, some huge and dirty sounding reverb is amazing. In a tight electronic or classic orchestral piece, it's just unwanted noise and frequency build-up when trying to mix it. Using a modulated, dirty reverb on a Send definitely seems to work better so that there's not several of them competing and clashing, turning the background into soup.

For my uses, needs, and preferences, this is why I like EA and Relab (some day I'll get you, VSR S24, you will be mine!!). I can always "dirty them up" on a Send with whatever chorus, compression, distortion, etc. I want, but it's hard/impossible to go in the other direction to clean one up.

As I type this, I'm having fun with Supermassive, playing the OB-6 thru it solo. Just messing around. It's so huge it'd HAVE to be solo, or very near to it with sparse elements flitting through. Or as a song intro and then slowly dial back the reverb as the song comes into focus.

[bmanic]

To my ears the Exponential audio algorithms seem a lot more "dense" than the PCM algorithms. Dense is NOT always a good thing though.

Having said that, you can control this with the diffusion control.. but the results are still different.
I only have the LXP bundle for Lexicon but do like them quite a lot. Had sort of forgotten that I have them though.

Currently I'm re-exploring AriesVerb which is such an interesting thing to play around with. You can get almost any reverb done with it.. and usually stumble on happy accidents.

[vurt]

For starters, a hardware reverb is potentially a lot more than a bunch of algorithms, even if it is a digital one.

Like what?

mojo!

there will be ad/da conversions, these may add noise, which in turn may colour the reverb.

[jens]

My favourite can-do-it-all-and-then-some reverbs are B2 and H-Reverb.

Hving said that: I loved - and religiously used - Ariesverb 0.4 back in the day...

I never got the commercial version though. And got means two different things here (i.e. both apply).

[vurt]

software i use a couple of reaktor ensembles, spacemaster2 and the blackhole emulation.

at the minute though im loving sending the guitar through a stereo pair of real springs
sadly, not a matched pair but still fun.

[jens]

For starters, a hardware reverb is potentially a lot more than a bunch of algorithms, even if it is a digital one.

Like what?

mojo!

there will be ad/da conversions, these may add noise, which in turn may colour the reverb.

Yes, exactly. Any hardware is a system that starts with the input and ends at the output. in the case of digital hardware, the algorithms are a major part of the system, but not the system itself.

I have no idea what kind of colorizations the PCM hardware entails though. I would guess there are big differences between 70, 80 and 91 (and whatever else there may be).

Also I have absolutely zero clue whether the plugins emulate the hardware - and if they do who the coded these bits.

[vurt]

For starters, a hardware reverb is potentially a lot more than a bunch of algorithms, even if it is a digital one.

Like what?

mojo!

there will be ad/da conversions, these may add noise, which in turn may colour the reverb.

Yes, exactly. Any hardware is a system that starts with the input and ends at the output. in the case of digital hardware, the algorithms are a major part of the system, but not the system itself.

I have no idea what kind of colorizations the PCM hardware entails though. I would guess there are big differences between 70, 80 and 91 (and whatever else there may be).

Also I have absolutely zero clue whether the plugins emulate the hardware - and if they do who the coded these bits.

cant comment on this either, but if i was looking for reverbs, id choose one that sounded good rather than one than sounds like an emulation...

these may be the same, but the point is id be listening for what sounds good!
forget judging it against the hardware, how does it sound??? thats what matters in the end

[pixel85]

Plugin Boutique promo is really nice. R4 + Trash 2 for $29.

I always was too skimpy to even check Exponential Audio reverbs (because of normal price).
I read the entire topic. Even that all of you said that R4 is not (very) transparent, in comparison to most of reverbs that I have, this one is still very "smooth". This is the kind of reverb I was missing in my arsenal.
I have some Liquidsonics reverbs (not the newest) but static IR (even Reverberate 2) is still a huge compromise for a reverb.
Others that I have are very audible in the mix. R4 can give nice 'cloud' to the sound and even that it's easy to hear it in the mix, it's not that much of attention seeker.
R4 is really nice on vocals and acoustic instruments, not so much on huge lead synths (for this NI Raum is great).

To stir the pot: I agree with those who are not huge fans of Valhalla reverbs. I don't like them and I feel like something is missing in their sound. Even more, it makes me happy that I could get reverb which sounds great for an even smaller price than Valhalla plugins

Now I'm really curious about Nimbus. I hope that it will also cost $29 on PB at some point

[SHall1000]

Your wish comes true....
https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... 230-NIMBUS

[Stokely]

edit...just realized Nimbus is the big brother of Phoenixverb, which I already bought for 9.99...

Not going for this, so far I have been using Phoenixverb and haven't needed to dive any deeper so I'll (for once) hold off. Already reeling from the u-he sale.

I also bought R4 and have been using both quite a bit. I had read Phoenix was more of a transparent verb and so far that matches my experience.

[Dirtgrain]

edit...just realized Nimbus is the big brother of Phoenixverb, which I already bought for 9.99...

I got Nimbus some time ago. I don't wind up using the extra controls for the most part. It does have a lot more presets and an additional reverb algorithm, but I'm thinking Phoenixverb would have been fine for what I do.

[Scarlet Pumpernickel]

I bought Phoenix and then Nimbus a long time ago (full price times). IMO, Nimbus shouldn't have been marketed as anything more than a Phoenix upgrade. Having said that, the additional ER patterns made Nimbus almost useful for me.

[Ou_Tis]

I'm curious about R4's ability to modulate the ER and tail separately---how useful does that actually end up being?...

If the answer is "not very" I'm wondering whether Neoverb might be better in the long run.