Recording guitar & bass using T7 at

[I will follow]

Hello

I'm pretty new to Tracktion 7 and I've spent weeks working on presets for guitar and bass which sound ok, but when I record , the playback sound isn't usually that great

I have my audio interface set so it never goes above green
I try to set in Amplitube 4 so that there is a reasonable input and output signal but doesn't go into the red
I record guitar and bass with the Amplitube 4 plugin activated

What I'm trying to get clarity on is how best to record guitar/bass simply and without clipping/distorting every time.

I'm pretty confused with so many plugins and levels and really just want to focus on writing songs.

1. Should I always record with both the track and Master volume plugin level at 0 and only adjust the input/output settings in Amplitube to set levels?
2. Should the level meter on each track and in the Master Output be set to RMS or Peak mode when recording?
3. Should I record with a VU meter enabled and set to -18 dbfs or only use a VU meter after recording when mixing?
4. Do I need both the Tracktion level meter and a VU meter plugin or just one of them?
5. My VU meter also has a pre-gain control but not sure how to set this properly
6. What should go in the Master Plugin section? Do I need it?
7. When I click on the audio clip, it gives me a menu at the bottom which includes an adjustable GAIN option. Is this an alternative to a VU/level meter or has it a different purpose?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I've watched so many Youtube videos trying to improve things that I'm now at the point of almost giving up!

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

My set-up is:
Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3
Amplitube 4
Tracktion 7

Thanks

[pough]

If it's clipping, try to find out where it's clipping. Turn off the effects and listen to it clean.

Clipping at device input? Recorded audio will sound distorted but not look distorted. Can happen with guitar or bass that has a built-in preamp.

Clipping in the audio recording? You will see the waveform hitting top and/or bottom. Turn down the input gain on your device.

Clipping in effect chain? Recorded audio will look/sound clean without effects. Adjust effect gain and volume.

I put a limiter into the master effects. When mixing, I will add some other effects there like EQ.

VU meters (including the Tracktion one) can be moved around, so you can also use those to see if volumes are going too high in various places.

7. That gain is gain - increase or decrease the volume of the clip.

[Watchful]

Pough is right, I think. Sounds like you're going in too hot. A compressor might help in lieu of a limiter, as well as his other good suggestions.

[Peter Widdicombe]

I guess one of the limitations is that you want as much gain through the "chain" as possible without clipping, until you get to the software that actually simulates clipping. Compression BEFORE it gets digitized in the FocusRite might help if you happened to have that... Remember to do your settings while running the guitar/bass the way you will actually be playing. Hitting chords the way you expect will have very different settings to a pretest of lightly picking the D string, for instance - or those passages will have unwanted DIGITAL clipping/distortion.

[I will follow]

If it's clipping, try to find out where it's clipping. Turn off the effects and listen to it clean.

Clipping at device input? Recorded audio will sound distorted but not look distorted. Can happen with guitar or bass that has a built-in preamp.

Clipping in the audio recording? You will see the waveform hitting top and/or bottom. Turn down the input gain on your device.

Clipping in effect chain? Recorded audio will look/sound clean without effects. Adjust effect gain and volume.

I put a limiter into the master effects. When mixing, I will add some other effects there like EQ.

VU meters (including the Tracktion one) can be moved around, so you can also use those to see if volumes are going too high in various places.

7. That gain is gain - increase or decrease the volume of the clip.

Thanks for all your feedback and much appreciated.

Just to clarify:

Should i be using vu meters on tracks, putting limiters into the Master Effects when recording or only bring them in during mixing?

Should i keep all Tracktion 7 levels at 0 when recording?

Does bringing the gain down in the properties section to around -18 have the same impact as a VU meter?

Do i need to use both the Tracktion level meter and a VU meter or just use one.

Is it best to record using RMS or peak mode?

Turn down input gain on device - do you mean on the Focusrite interface? I always try to make make sure this stays green.

Sorry for the list and thanks again for your feedback!

Cheers

[I will follow]

Pough is right, I think. Sounds like you're going in too hot. A compressor might help in lieu of a limiter, as well as his other good suggestions.

Thanks for getting back to me - much appreciated.
Would you add a compressor plugin during the recording or only afterwards when mixing?

Cheers

[I will follow]

I guess one of the limitations is that you want as much gain through the "chain" as possible without clipping, until you get to the software that actually simulates clipping. Compression BEFORE it gets digitized in the FocusRite might help if you happened to have that... Remember to do your settings while running the guitar/bass the way you will actually be playing. Hitting chords the way you expect will have very different settings to a pretest of lightly picking the D string, for instance - or those passages will have unwanted DIGITAL clipping/distortion.

Thanks for your feedback Peter - much appreciated.

I just want to have a simple process to use when recording either guitar or bass without it becoming too technical.

Cheers

[pough]

Should i be using vu meters on tracks, putting limiters into the Master Effects when recording or only bring them in during mixing?

I have never used a VU meter. I use the built-in level meters and sometimes Voxengo SPAN when mixing to find problematic stuff like too much bass.

The master volume defaults to -3. That's probably just to save your ears. I add the limiter for that reason and set the master back to zero.

Should i keep all Tracktion 7 levels at 0 when recording?

If you mean the various software volume controls, it probably doesn't matter much. There's no harm in setting them to zero. Setting the software volume controls to zero won't make a difference to the audio that gets recorded, except for the Input Gain for the particular input. (see images attached)

Does bringing the gain down in the properties section to around -18 have the same impact as a VU meter?

That question doesn't make any sense to me, sorry. As far as I know, VU meters don't affect volume, they just report it. So how could a gain control do the same thing as a VU meter? It's like asking if the gas pedal does the same thing as the speedometer.

Do i need to use both the Tracktion level meter and a VU meter or just use one.

I can't tell you anything about the appropriate use of a VU meter.

Is it best to record using RMS or peak mode?

I have no idea. I don't know what RMS is. Never looked into it. I try to make sure what I'm recording is relatively loud without ever clipping. The nice thing about digital is that turning up the volume after the fact works pretty well so generally speaking too quiet is safer than too loud.

Turn down input gain on device - do you mean on the Focusrite interface? I always try to make make sure this stays green.

Yes. Green is good but it might not be enough. Test to see where the clipping occurs. You are going to have to track it down yourself instead of just asking for "correct" settings.

I have attached two images. One points you to the things you need to look at when setting recording levels to avoid digital clipping. The other shows three recordings. One is nice and clean with the max incoming volume at around -6. The second shows digital clipping - you can see the flat tops at the bottom and top. The max incoming volume was mostly above 0. The third is audio that was distorting in my mixer before going in to the audio device. It's also obviously clipped but in a different way.

Listen and look. You can see digital clipping and to a lesser extent analog clipping. If the recorded audio has no clipping, move on to the effects chain.

[Watchful]

Thanks for getting back to me - much appreciated.
Would you add a compressor plugin during the recording or only afterwards when mixing?

You can do it with either!

Using Waveform's built-in compressor or a free one like Gcomp, drag that onto your track in front of the level meter. Set the ratio to 3:1 or 4:1. As your record, bring the threshold down until it's barely hitting orange on your loudest notes. As you playback after recording, you can mess with the settings until you're sure the track is staying mostly green when the track volume is at 0dB.

That's brute force compression. You're better off adjusting the input gain and finding a happy balance so that you're just *barely* using compression. There's a bunch of different compressors on the market, and you can chain them together or use a compressor to feed a limiter on the master bus, too, until you find a solution and sound you like.

[I will follow]

Thanks for all your replies and all comments are much appreciated again for taking the time to provide all this feedback. I'm now getting a much better idea as to how to record and mix better - great forum!

When I asked should i keep all Tracktion 7 levels at 0 when recording, I was referring here to the volume levels on the volume plugin for each track .

Cheers

[Watchful]

Any unwanted distortion or clipping is recorded before it gets to the volume fader on the track, so it doesn't matter. What that really means is that you want to curb any recording issues before they get recorded. As a result, you can leave the volume fader at 0dB or turn it down to suit your taste, but it's not going to improve the quality. It's basically the volume knob on a home stereo: it affects whatever you're listening to, but doesn't improve the original recording.

EDIT: That last sentence isn't true, sorry. It can improve things, but your best best is to eliminate anything unwanted before it goes to your output.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, as a guitar player, and perennial lunkhead at recording.

One thing that was inferred, but not clearly stated- be mindful of your settings on your plugins too. Amp and fx sims have gain/level knobs as well. I've had Bias amps & effects for years, and I invariably clip after I render the track, so I have to always have the settings lower (which kind of makes Bias useless for me; if I can't hear the intended effect, it changes how I play).

Focusrite seems to run a bit "hot" so be mindful of the gain setting there. I have the Solo 2, which was a bit of an improvement over the 1st generation.

FWIW, I use -6 as my starting point from the track's db VU meter. This often changes, when it comes to mixing/mastering, but as Watchful said, you want to curb any issues before they get recorded.

*I* DON'T use a compressor, or limiter, to control clipping (personal preference). If used improperly, you can actually increase your gain ("makeup gain"). I've found in the guitar world, compressors are sorely misunderstood, and from reading, similarly in the recording world. Here's a vid that may be helpful to you. A guitar compressor works similarly to a plugin compressor.

Similarly with a limiter. Compressors are generally more transparent. A limiter is like a slap in the face. Another vid:

Read the comments. Where I disagree with this guy is using a limiter only when mastering (but it may get you to where you want). No reason why you can't use a limiter on just a track. I know trap/hip hop producers use limiters on kick drums all the time.

I feel your pain. I recorded my guitar for the first time in 2 years, last week. It was a hot mess, as I forgot the many areas that can have an impact on gain. After 10 days, I tracked down my mistake to a mastering plugin, where (for whatever reason), I had the gain dimed out. A good example of the many areas where things can go wrong, and where to look. I was blaming my interface, in this case, my Katana amp, which works as an interface.

Hope this helped a bit.

[GuitarPlayerinNYC]

When I asked should i keep all Tracktion 7 levels at 0 when recording, I was referring here to the volume levels on the volume plugin for each track .

I use 0 as my maximum level for every track, then adjust accordingly. I've gone into the +2-4 area, when I've recorded something too softly. I hate redoing a guitar solo, so I fix, when I can.

As with real guitars and amps, you can dirty up a clean sound, but you can't clean up a dirty sound.

[Peter Widdicombe]

You might want to experiment recording "squeaky clean" guitar. Just like in real life, an electric with nothing but a clean amp and not overdriven tends to sound a bit boring (ever plugged a guitar straight into a mixer ?). Recording with the levels too low should not affect the sound quality, but you may get some unwanted background hiss, which is one of the reasons to push as close to the upper limit as possible without going over. When you DO go over at some stage, something is changed or lost; and that can be pleasing/desired if it clips/overdrives in the analog world (think tube amps !) or nasty if you go too far; or is digitally clipped.

So you want it somewhat below your maximum threshold, so when you DO feed it into a guitar/effects unit, IT can take that nice clean and noise-free sound and process it (gently clip, EQ, play with harmonics, phase shift, whatever) as intended.

Analog/tape devices were often interesting and desirable if you exceeded the design limits a little. Digital - not as pleasant most of the time.

I have an old Digitech pedal - one of those all-in-one things with wah-wah and 120 presets. You can run it squeaky clean to verify your signal path, and then add in eq/overdrive/amp simulator on the pedal BEFORE it hits the mixer or Waveform. It does have the unfortunate side-effect is that you can't "undo" it's internal effects later, other than re-recording it. (Or by using sends and rerouting back in, but you need extra interfaces to do that).

[I will follow]

Thanks again to everyone for your feedback - all really helpful and appreciated.

One additional question would be how and when to use the Gain setting in the Audio Clip Properties section of Tracktion 7. When I record electric guitar or bass and then try to use this setting to manage the level of the track and set it to around -15 db, it does reduce the amount of gain but also affects the overall tone and volume of the guitar. Is this a setting I need to be using as part of mixing ,and if so, am I using it for the right purpose?

Thanks again!