Let's discuss the DAW market right now (Logic, Studio One, FL Studio etc)

[tooneba]

Isn't it that technically superior but not practically superior is what you just described?

[chk071]

Bitwigs browser sucks, it doesn't have thumbnail images as a fast visual reference to plugins.

LOL

I also think it's quite a neat feature though. Didn't think much of it at first, but, now I really "need" it. Makes picking the right plugin much easier and faster than just the name if the plugin.

But, OK, I get your point. Just saying that a browser sucks just because it doesn't have that feature alone is a bit hasty.

[Trancit]

...
Also, I imagine Steinberg or Apple execs not being happy seeing Live or FL taking the crown of "Top DAW" year after year, when they know they have - technically - superior products.

Do they...?? What makes them technically superior??

I believe superiority depends on the user needs. If you need ARA, scoring, comping, mpe, expression maps etc Logic and Cubase are superior but they are also crippled in a lot of other areas compared to Live,FL and Bitwig.

So let´s say they´ve got a different feature set but this is nothing new, isn´t it??

[machinesworking]

I own both Live and Bitwig, use them both, but I have no issue saying Logic, Reaper, DP are technically superior. Every DAW has a few areas that are missing refinement at the least, but the older DAWs, (and Reaper because it's designed like and older DAW), add in the ability to do just about anything.
What Live and Bitwig, and I'm sure FL Studio do that makes them better tools for some is limit workflow to a few significant things maybe, but also eliminate time consuming steps. Modulation is one. It's not impossible to do complex modulation in any DAW, but it's copy pasting track automation for multiple similar FX in older DAWs compared to the LFOs in Live and Bitwig Studio. You can get things done in Live and Bitwigs linear timeline, but they aren't anything feature wise compared to Logic, DP etc. I don't think either approach is superior, so I've owned Live alongside DP and Logic for 15+ years, now Bitwig.

[oxygenmask]

My situation is as follows: I have FL Studio, Reason, Studio One and Bandlab. I used Sonar for a long time and then switched to Studio One, but I like having a current version of the software to work my old projects if need be, but I prefer Studio One.

Reason: If Reason gets a real freeze function, I'll switch to that as my primary. I love the way it looks and the sequencer. Also, I do have a number of REs as well. I love that I can use it as a plugin now, but I still do really like the environment. Literally, one feature added and it becomes my primary. I can't stand that one instance of Reaktor Razor can bring it to its knees. I know they are working on scaling as well, which will help, but I can deal with tiny devices. I'll just stare longer and get closer to my monitors.

FL Studio: If FL Studio gets linear recording that makes sense, I will pay way more attention to it. As of now, I can't get my brain to wrap around the process to the point where I could use it as my primary. Also, it needs a real freeze function. I don't think I would ever use it as a primary though.

Studio One: If Studio One gets a facelift, I will stay with it as my primary. GUI is extremely important to me. Studio One isn't bad, but I don't think it's nearly as attractive as the other DAWs mentioned. Feature wise, I love it, but I"m not writing underscore or anything that complex, so I can't speak to how it handles 150 track projects. Actually I can't speak to that for any of these DAWs.

Pro Tools: Looks ugly and uninspiring to me. I'm sure it's great, but given that every DAW seems to have the features I need, the GUI is the main factor.

Cubase: Tried it several times and I just don't like it.

Abelton: The thing could make my breakfast and I still wouldn't use it. I find it pretty much the pinnacle of ugly.

Bitwig: Tempted, but not enough to learn a whole new DAW. Plus, $400 is an expensive experiment if I hate the workflow.

Waveform Pro: Almost bit on the deal they are running, but worried about some comments that say it's trying to catch up to other DAWs. The price is right to try it, but I'm not sure I want to invest the time just to find out that it can't do what Studio One can do.

I think Reason getting a freeze function would be the best solution for me.

[mholloway]

professionals don't upgrade their software that often and usually stick to one DAW.

This.

[Passing Bye]

Will be interesting to see if anyone equals or beats Bitwig's browser. That's a huge part of the reason I use it.

+1
Bitwig's browser is insane

Bitwigs browser sucks, it doesn't have thumbnail images as a fast visual reference to plugins.

Never had an issue with it. The plugins I use regularly I know the names of. Studio One allows you to take a screen shot of a plugin and use it to associate it, but I never use it because who cares? To each their own though.

Bitwig's browser is one of the things that I really love, who cares about thumbnails, you can find most things in mater of seconds via search, plugins, presets, samples, clips, preview them, audition directly in place and in project, hands down the best browser of all DAW's.

[Danilo Villanova]

My situation is as follows: I have FL Studio, Reason, Studio One and Bandlab. I used Sonar for a long time and then switched to Studio One, but I like having a current version of the software to work my old projects if need be, but I prefer Studio One.

Reason: If Reason gets a real freeze function, I'll switch to that as my primary. I love the way it looks and the sequencer. Also, I do have a number of REs as well. I love that I can use it as a plugin now, but I still do really like the environment. Literally, one feature added and it becomes my primary. I can't stand that one instance of Reaktor Razor can bring it to its knees. I know they are working on scaling as well, which will help, but I can deal with tiny devices. I'll just stare longer and get closer to my monitors.

FL Studio: If FL Studio gets linear recording that makes sense, I will pay way more attention to it. As of now, I can't get my brain to wrap around the process to the point where I could use it as my primary. Also, it needs a real freeze function. I don't think I would ever use it as a primary though.

Studio One: If Studio One gets a facelift, I will stay with it as my primary. GUI is extremely important to me. Studio One isn't bad, but I don't think it's nearly as attractive as the other DAWs mentioned. Feature wise, I love it, but I"m not writing underscore or anything that complex, so I can't speak to how it handles 150 track projects. Actually I can't speak to that for any of these DAWs.

Pro Tools: Looks ugly and uninspiring to me. I'm sure it's great, but given that every DAW seems to have the features I need, the GUI is the main factor.

Cubase: Tried it several times and I just don't like it.

Abelton: The thing could make my breakfast and I still wouldn't use it. I find it pretty much the pinnacle of ugly.

Bitwig: Tempted, but not enough to learn a whole new DAW. Plus, $400 is an expensive experiment if I hate the workflow.

Waveform Pro: Almost bit on the deal they are running, but worried about some comments that say it's trying to catch up to other DAWs. The price is right to try it, but I'm not sure I want to invest the time just to find out that it can't do what Studio One can do.

I think Reason getting a freeze function would be the best solution for me.

I’m pretty much on the same boat regarding Reason, I just like it way more than anything else, it’s not even close. But it really struggles with Reaktor...

[machinesworking]

Bitwig's browser is one of the things that I really love, who cares about thumbnails, you can find most things in mater of seconds via search, plugins, presets, samples, clips, preview them, audition directly in place and in project, hands down the best browser of all DAW's.

I like it, I'm not crazy about it though, preview is cool I guess except when it interferes with control surfaces abilities to preview, Push 2 has at times struggled to scroll through presets because the scrolling action of Push is read by Bitwig as loading, so it's clunky.

Reaper and a few other DAWs have a "recent plug in" list, this is super helpful, something to poke Bitwig about as well.

I'm also not aware of any ability to make folders and organize VSTs the way you want to, DP and Logic both do this. Folders in general would be helpful, I don't know of any way to do this in your favorites list, or with Presets? Considering that Presets are the catch all way to sort out things like External instrument plug ins with all the settings for your hardware it would be nice to have a folder with just external instruments in it. Maybe that's possible, but It's definitely something you would have to do outside of Bitwig unless I'm missing something?

[ramseysounds]

Cubase user since version 4. No reason to change. Absolutely love it.

[antic604]

...
Also, I imagine Steinberg or Apple execs not being happy seeing Live or FL taking the crown of "Top DAW" year after year, when they know they have - technically - superior products.

Do they...?? What makes them technically superior??

Well, perhaps "technically" is a wrong word. I mean they cover all the relevant functionality in an exhausting manner, unlike "creative" DAWs that were designed to be quick and easy doing specified, limited set of things.

[antic604]

Bitwigs browser sucks, it doesn't have thumbnail images as a fast visual reference to plugins.

LOL

I also think it's quite a neat feature though. Didn't think much of it at first, but, now I really "need" it. Makes picking the right plugin much easier and faster than just the name if the plugin.

But, OK, I get your point. Just saying that a browser sucks just because it doesn't have that feature alone is a bit hasty.

The only benefit I see is that you might be encouraged to use a plugin you rarely use or even forgot you have. But it really has to be implemented well, and it's not in S1 - as I said, plugins show at different sizes which triggers my OCD, there are issues capturing the thumbnails on high-DPI screens and the search bar doesn't get focus immediately, so you need to click it to start searching.

Come to think of it, browser might be my least favourite part of S1.

[Ou_Tis]

My situation is as follows: I have FL Studio, Reason, Studio One and Bandlab. I used Sonar for a long time and then switched to Studio One, but I like having a current version of the software to work my old projects if need be, but I prefer Studio One.

Reason: If Reason gets a real freeze function, I'll switch to that as my primary. I love the way it looks and the sequencer. Also, I do have a number of REs as well. I love that I can use it as a plugin now, but I still do really like the environment. Literally, one feature added and it becomes my primary. I can't stand that one instance of Reaktor Razor can bring it to its knees. I know they are working on scaling as well, which will help, but I can deal with tiny devices. I'll just stare longer and get closer to my monitors.

FL Studio: If FL Studio gets linear recording that makes sense, I will pay way more attention to it. As of now, I can't get my brain to wrap around the process to the point where I could use it as my primary. Also, it needs a real freeze function. I don't think I would ever use it as a primary though.

Studio One: If Studio One gets a facelift, I will stay with it as my primary. GUI is extremely important to me. Studio One isn't bad, but I don't think it's nearly as attractive as the other DAWs mentioned. Feature wise, I love it, but I"m not writing underscore or anything that complex, so I can't speak to how it handles 150 track projects. Actually I can't speak to that for any of these DAWs.

Pro Tools: Looks ugly and uninspiring to me. I'm sure it's great, but given that every DAW seems to have the features I need, the GUI is the main factor.

Cubase: Tried it several times and I just don't like it.

Abelton: The thing could make my breakfast and I still wouldn't use it. I find it pretty much the pinnacle of ugly.

Bitwig: Tempted, but not enough to learn a whole new DAW. Plus, $400 is an expensive experiment if I hate the workflow.

Waveform Pro: Almost bit on the deal they are running, but worried about some comments that say it's trying to catch up to other DAWs. The price is right to try it, but I'm not sure I want to invest the time just to find out that it can't do what Studio One can do.

I think Reason getting a freeze function would be the best solution for me.

Waveform is very intuitive and easy to use. But updating my Waves plugins caused all the Waves plugin settings in existing projects to be lost... so from now on I'm just using it for quick sketches (also good for quick automatic midi generation though I don't usually bother). Loads quickly too.

Bitwig's gui has some annoying quirks (maybe inherited from Ableton?), but it can be used pretty much immediately. Whereas my first reaction to Ableton was "WTF this gui is hideous" and then iirc "ugh this won't let me do anything unless I read the manual first to set it up".

I'm still mostly using Bitwig, but I'm in the process of (possibly) switching to Cubase. I've been watching Cubase tutorials... maybe it's not so bad once you learn the shortcuts and create your own macros, but it's ridiculous how much memorization it requires. Seems like an unnecessary barrier to entry, contrary to the idea that they're trying to appeal to casual users. Maybe what I need is a searchable list of keyboard shortcuts and quirks. Apparently Bitwig is 32 bit only (unless that's changed) so I'm going to try to do some blind tests of whether Cubase at 64 bit sounds noticeably better. So far I've just been using Cubase for Groove Agent SE, which only works in Cubase (they don't even offer Cubase owners a discount to upgrade to the full version of Groove Agent...).

[oxygenmask]

I don't have many Waves plugins, so maybe Waveform is worth a shot. It amazes me how one feature can make or break our decisions as to what DAWs people use. I know freeze in Reason and FL Studio are both in the top ten requested features the last time I checked. In my mind, I'm willing to overlook the smaller problems that aren't crucial to operation, but Reaktor in Reason makes it pretty much unusable for me after the second instance. That really prevents me from using the product entirely. I feel like an issue that makes a DAW unusable really should be front and center on the update list. I can handle tiny things and ugly things even though they still bother me. I know that one problem with freeze in Reason is that what happens to the synth that's being controlled by the frozen synth.... ? I guess at that point, freeze should freeze anything connected to that original device. If you want to change something further, just unfreeze it. I'm absolutely positive I'm not using Reason the way some of you do. I have seen videos of rack setups that make my brain bleed, so I'm sure I don't understand the complexities of this entirely. I just want to use it!

[PieBerger]

Healthy and competitive enough that Ableton really ought to pull their finger out and implement the features I want