"Live" use of plugin effects (latency question)

[dynamo]

A newbie question regarding Waveform but actually DAWs in general:
Is there a way to use plugin effects (delay, reverb etc) with external hardware synths, drum machines, vocals etc (i.e. anything from "outside the box")?
My limited experience has shown me that I'm getting a delay between the input signal and the effect plugin, making it useless. I suppose this is the infamous "latency" issue I've heard so much about but couldn't understand until now.

The idea was to get rid of several hardware effect processors and using plugins instead...
Is the "correct" way to use a DAW with external instruments to first record them (and hearing them completely dry in the process, or running them through external hardware effect processors monitored outside of the DAW), then -after it's entered "inside the box" I add whichever effect plugins I want without any issues?

[Peter Widdicombe]

HOW are you getting audio in/out of the computer? Headphone jacks on laptops or even Motherboard-based audio cards typically aren't good, but in some cases using ASIO may help. Low-latency even USB adapters can minimize that to almost nothing. I'm using a $40 Behringer UCA222 and it works well. Much better than the laptop soundcard or Mackie ProFX mixer that had USB "built in" (more like shoehorned on, from the way it worked...).

[dynamo]

It's a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (1st generation) connected via USB to a Mac Pro running MacOS 10.13.6.
It's got a "zero latency" mode, but I'm not sure how that works, or if it's for something else than when used with a DAW.

[dynamo]

I think I (partly) worked it out. The Scarlett "Mix control" mixer app for the audio interface is a little daunting, but I think I worked out how to select a different output configuration.
I played around with a (hardware) drum machine in Garageband and it appeared to be playable without any delays and with reverb plugins when played "live". I just had to ensure that the track's "Rec" buttons were armed.

So the hardware appears to handle it, but I'm having problems reproducing this in Waveform. The track input meters show the audio coming in, but I can't hear anything. The tracks say that they're output to their default setup, and in Waveform's "audio" preferences section I have my audio interface set up for both input and output. I must have missed a setting somewhere, but where?

[Peter Widdicombe]

Track input meters are registering, shows you are getting something. What about the meters on the right for output?

Also, what IS default output set to, and is that an interrface you can hear? (Although track output meters are the "best" indicator of SOMETHING going through).

[dynamo]

There's no activity at all on the right hand side EXCEPT when I play back what I've already RECORDED from thoses inputs (but I only hear it through the speakers which are connected to the main output of the 18i20, nothing comes out of the headphone jacks of the 18i20).

The default output in Waveform is set to the 18i20 (and so is the default input).

I suspect the "mix control" app's configuration to be at least part of the problem, but again that doesn't quite make sense since it all worked fine in Garageband, but nothing would susprise me. Unless there's something else I can try I'm going to take a closer look at the Focusrite "Mix control" configuration which is far from user-friendly unfortunately.

[Peter Widdicombe]

2 things could have an impact here...

1. Options "run audio engine when stopped". When not playing or recording, effects and such aren't operation.
2. When you select the input device and the bottom panel opens up, upper left there's a "Enable input monitoring" beside "treat as a stereo pair". When enabled, sound is passed through when recording or audio engine is running. When not, it doesn't feed that input to the outputs.

If you want to hear the input back through the output of Waveform, enable that. If you're actually listening (for that track) while recording through the mixer or other external rig, you may want to disable that (and if enabled in some instances it may cause either echo or feedback loop).

I think the setting is per audio device, so take note. If you disable it FOR THAT DEVICE, it may actually get disabled for others. ** Now that I look for it, I can't find that. Maybe that DEVICE-setting was for earlier versions of Tracktion?

[dynamo]

Found it!
Actually two things solved it:

1) In the Focusrite "MixControl" app (for configuring the 18i20 audio interface) I found a few presets, among them "DAW tracking" which was the right one.
"Zero latency tracking" was definitely not the right one as it resulted in the original signal followed very shortly by a delayed signal.

2) In Waveform, after some searching for the right menu/option (I still consider myself a novice to DAWs in general and Waveform in particular, so I often look around in the wrong place) I finally found the "Enable input monitoring" option. Here's a screenshot:

Tracktion live input monitoring.png

After enabling that option (and ensuring the tracks in question were armed for recording) I could see moving level meters on the right hand side and hear the audio, all with effect plugins enabled and heard in real time (or at least it appears to be).

Thanks for leading me in the right direction!
I suppose the audio interface should always be set to "DAW tracking" as the name implies, and I'm guessing "Zero latency tracking" is what the audio interface defaults to when the computer isn't switched on, so as to hear whatever comes into it from the monitor speakers connected to it, right?

I assume "Zero latency tracking" just routes the audio interface inputs directly to its stereo output (connected to the monitor speakers) while "DAW tracking" routes the inputs to the computer, through the DAW/plugins and what have you, then finally goes back into the audio interface's outputs. Am I correct?

There's also an option entitled "Mixing" which I don't know what's for.

[Peter Widdicombe]

Yeah, you've got the "compact" mode enabled, but good to see the "Live input monitoring" was one of the few that shows up. I mostly use the full version of that panel with all the options visible (click the up-arrow extreme left to see - but it does take up some screen real-estate).

[dynamo]

Yes, I see what you mean:
Click the "up button" on the left":

Tracktion expand properties.png

Then ensure you click the small track area where it says "Mic 1" in this screenshot:

Tracktion rec properties.png

Clicking elsewhere on the track apparently won't bring up the "Live input monitoring" option.

Thanks again for leading me in the right direction. Aside from solving the issue of no audio I've also found that clicking on the right tracks areas gives me numerous nice options to play around with (like "Create folder containing" and "Create submix containing"). Very nice, and should help me clean things up when recording multiple tracks.