VIDEO - MSuperLooper vs Mobius Looper

[BennyG]

Yet another MSuperLooper video, and probably the last of these I'll make for a while (I appreciate Melda makes a lot of other plugins, and I've been filling the forum with Looper discussion of late!)

Two reasons for making this one: number one is that I'm again seeking a bit of help, this time with the operation of Sync mode + Default bars. I'm trying to work out if there's a way to operate MSuperLooper such that I don't have to manually set end-points on my loops (which Default bars gives you), but still be able to use different loop lengths on each track (which isn't available with Default bars on). Is there a way to do this? If not I would like to suggest it as a feature request.

Second is to detail how I used to achieve this with my old looper Mobius, and also to demonstrate the Replace and Multiply functions with a little song performance (starts at 10 mins in). I'd really, really like to be able to play this song with MSuperLooper!

[ericzang]

Hey Ben, here's a variable bar version based on my previous approach, as well as a way to set a track to be a certain bar length. Also a little video demonstrating. In video I forgot to open the Modulator 1/2 windows to show those, so check that out too if you like. Paste in the code below.

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[ericzang]

Here's a little thing, nothing complicated, thought it might be helpful for some just starting. Here is how I've set it up to stop and restart, to allow for a break filled with live playing. Paste in code below.

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[tonycore]

Thanks for these videos, guys. For those of us doing more free-form looping, we need to be able to get away from the bars/beats paradigm...you can simulate it with these settings, but being able to set arbitrary lengths for each track unrelated to any concept of regular tempo would be so great!

[ericzang]

If operating MSL in unsynced mode is not what you need, do you mean presetting the length of each track to a seconds value? Such as 1st track 8 secs, 2nd track 5.3 secs, etc?

[BennyG]

Thanks for all your efforts here Eric, both with the presets you've made and the time taken to do videos too This is really clever stuff and makes my previous MultiParameter video look positively amateurish by comparison. I had no idea you could create so much interaction between the MultiParameters and Modulators!

I've been playing around with these presets all evening and it's given me a ton of ideas. I'm still yet to find a way to emulate the single-pedal solution I had in Mobius. As I understand it, your first preset requires some manual intervention in terms of changing the "Bars & Wait" parameter between recordings. The second preset requires multiple pedals, depending on how many different bar lengths you wish to use. Still, this is real progress and very inspiring.

[BennyG]

That second video is great too and, in fact, you've already solved an issue I was going to run into on another song I was hoping to play with MSL (it features this exact break scenario with vocal harmonies on a couple of different tracks, so it's nice to know that's possible already). Plus, seeing how you set up that Mute MultiParameter gave me an idea, and I now have a complete "Reset All" button that not only clears all the loops, but also resets all tracks back to their unmuted state and all play directions to forwards at the same time

[Dirk Diggler]

Hello, as a user of both these software loopers I just wanted to post a comment. Having used most of the major hardware players over the many years of looping it's in my DNA. I still have a couple hardware loopers as well.

It seems to me you're trying to do everything with 1 looper. The 2 actually play very well with each other and mobius still works like it used to all the way to win10 64bit.

I've learned to explore each device to find out what it can and can't do. Then figure out which I need or combine them to get what I need.
The only hardware device I could get reasonable pitch bend with CC was a Repeater but it was very noisy. Go with the strengths of each.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is why struggle pushing a square peg in a round hole?

By the way have you considered deep diving in to your SS2? Lot's can be taken care of there. Heck if you're a real glutton for punishment why not break out a Bome setup?

I echo your appreciation for MsuperLooper and it fits in perfectly with all my other looping devices.

Good luck,
Dirk

[Dirk Diggler]

Just another thought on the subject, for my purposes MsuperLooper works great when I want to be locked to the DAW clock (grid). Mobius is ideal for free form not locked to the grid type of looping. Which is especially useful if you're not using any percussion accompaniment.

I think of this kind of looping as free wheeling which allows fantastic polyrhythms since each track can run at whatever length you record it. It can produce horribly wrong and OUT loops if that's your thing. You can get much looser sounding, not so rigid type of loop this way, of course Mobius can lock to the clock as well, so.

Dirk

[BennyG]

It seems to me you're trying to do everything with 1 looper. The 2 actually play very well with each other and mobius still works like it used to all the way to win10 64bit.

Thanks so much for your comments Dirk. This one in particular gave me an idea, which Vojtech himself also suggested: why not use 2 instances of MSuperLooper? This was never possible with Mobius (as far as I'm aware), but separate instances of MSL do work very well alongside each other. The routing can start to get a bit fiddly, but I've been able to recreate the song I posted above using just MSL in this way:

By the way have you considered deep diving in to your SS2? Lot's can be taken care of there. Heck if you're a real glutton for punishment why not break out a Bome setup?

I must admit I haven't - I spent a very brief time setting it up to spit out the MIDI notes I needed, plus some CC messages using the pressure control, but I haven't been back to the editor in a long while. Could you give me any clues as to how it might help out in this instance?

[Dirk Diggler]

Well first off way cool and entertaining loopage! And I enjoy seeing Turnado there, that plugin is nuts. And you are right I tried to get multiple instances of Mobius working, no way.
Can each instance be midi mapped individually? Seems to me each instance by midi channel might be one way.

Yeah it was a joke about SoftStep, I have a love hate relationship with mine. The editor is painful to say the least. I've had to set it up so many different ways and pressure was always a bit flaky for me. Maybe a toggle setup to switch between them? But I see you feet are already busy on the SS.
Dirk

[BennyG]

Cheers Dirk. Got hold of Turnado recently and am loving it! I only added it in the video above to replace the glitchy stuff I was doing before with Mobius, but I think it works quite well. Can't wait to get a bit deeper into it, rather than just moving controls at random until it sounds cool.

Mapping the two instances of MSL to different MIDI channels would certainly have been a more elegant way of doing it. All I did was route the same guitar/MIDI tracks into both, and automated the sends so that I was only sending audio and MIDI to one MSL at any one time. It worked here, but I would soon run into trouble with a more complex song structure.

SoftStep editor is indeed a pain, but somehow it's a massive improvement over the previous version of the pedal/software, which was a nightmare. I still have trouble with the sensitivity of the pads - I get the odd double-trigger, but if I turn it down from where it is I have to lean on them too hard. The pressure feature is nice idea that doesn't work so well in practice, you just can't reliably control the range of CCs well enough. I had much more success with the expression pedals on my old FCB1010, and keep thinking about getting a separate expression pedal to use alongside the SS.

[Dirk Diggler]

I still have a SS1 and the first round of editors was painful at best. The SS2 seems much better and less likely to cause noise/lighting/guitar issues.
Sadly the pedal adds issues as well, but it can work. I've used Roland Ev-5's and currently using the Moog expression pedal with success.
I still have an Uno chip version of FCB1010, it's just too big and clunky, and editing the FCB makes the SS editor look like a walk in the park. The pedals do work great once setup correctly.
Dirk

[ericzang]

Just in case you haven't seen these options for using multiple expression pedals via usb:

https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php - I have had a good experience with this, although it would be even more flexible if the optional vst plugin could be automated so as to change settings on the fly.

https://www.datalooperpedal.com/product ... per-pedal/ - this can be used as a generic midi controller, well made, works well. The current v2 has two expression pedal inputs, but I have only the v1 without that.

No experience with, just found on internet search:
http://www.eowave.com/interactive-instr ... t-control/
https://ameliascompass.com/product/controllerhub-8/

[Dirk Diggler]

Thanks for the Datalooper link, that looks like an impressive device.
I wasn't aware of them.

However it will take a lot to replace my SoftStep2, multiple expression pedals would be handy.

Dirk