Low end improvements for Repro

[vertibration]

So after watching a comparison video for shits and giggles



I wanted to bring up a suggestion for a consideration when further updating Repro 5. One thing Ive noticed, and I can attest to this as I have owned a couple of Dave Smith synths, is VST's tend to thin out when you hit lower notes. When you watch this video, and this dude plays a note on the lower end of the keys, on the P5 you can really hear those bass frequencies. When he switches to Repro 5, those lower notes don't have as much bass to them. I know that is the magic of Analog, but is it possible to maybe look at Repro, and see if there is the possibility to improve it as far as bass response?

I dont want to start any arguments on here about how Repro is the best or 99.9% spot on, thats not what I am trying to get at. I am merely asking if there is room for any improvements to the sound. I almost feel like all it needs is a little bit more low end when you start to play lower notes?

[Urs]

When you watch carefully, he plays Repro on a 4 octave keyboard. The note he hits on the Prophet 5 simply is an octave lower because the Prophet-5 has a 5 octave keyboard.

I've had to point this out about three dozen times since the video surfaced, I'm happy to point it out again and again

[Urs]

(I do encourage people to send me a Prophet 5 with more bottom end though, I'm happy to take it apart to figure out where it originates, and then maybe replicate that)

[ariston]

This is worthy of Spinal Tap...

"When you're already this low, where can you go from there?... where can you go? What we do is... we use a LARGER keyboard! (Pause for effect) We just play LOWER, see?"

[vertibration]

When you watch carefully, he plays Repro on a 4 octave keyboard. The note he hits on the Prophet 5 simply is an octave lower because the Prophet-5 has a 5 octave keyboard.

I've had to point this out about three dozen times since the video surfaced, I'm happy to point it out again and again

I didnt catch that, sorry. Im not as active on this forum to have known that you addressed this previously. I do still think that there can be a low end improvement, I will try to find other comparisons and post them if I can find them.

[zvenx]

Oh dear....
rsp

[zvenx]

Hmm actually even though I am really not hearing more bottom end on the Hardware synth, I am not sure he isn't a/bing them in the same octaves....
Actually in the latter part of the video he is triggering both from the Hardware P5..... (I skipped around the video this time (I had heard it a few months or so ago), so if there is a point he plays at different octaves in his comparison I missed that)

edit: I stand corrected, even in the first motif, he plays a lower B flat on the hardware that he doesn't on the software.

rsp

[zerocrossing]

One thing I always do when comparing synths is to get them up on a spectrum analyzer right away. Look to see where those harmonics are. How they’re sloping. Match exact frequencies of filter by tuning that filter with resonance all the way up and then bringing it down so they match. I’ve never done that with a Prophet 5, of any revision, but I have on a Prophet 6, and while there are differences, they’re a lot more similar than different. The best way I can describe the difference is that the hardware sounds a bit more defuse. Not super noticeable on a single voice, but when you hold down a chord, you can definitely notice it. For some sounds, the coherent sound of Repro is actually preferable. That little bit of difference is quite expensive, but worth it to me. The interface is nice to have, as is the available voices with no CPU hit. The distortion on the 6 is nice too, a bit more wild sounding and doesn’t show the aliasing in the upper registers that the software shows. The high pass filter is really nice too.

I definitely wouldn’t buy a Prophet 5 r4, though. In all honesty, I don’t think it sounds as good as the Prophet 6. People are all going crazy for it, but I’m not really hearing anything that I consider to be “better,” and for that price, it should make you weep.

[AnX]

never trust a YT video, ever....

[vertibration]

One thing I always do when comparing synths is to get them up on a spectrum analyzer right away. Look to see where those harmonics are. How they’re sloping. Match exact frequencies of filter by tuning that filter with resonance all the way up and then bringing it down so they match. I’ve never done that with a Prophet 5, of any revision, but I have on a Prophet 6, and while there are differences, they’re a lot more similar than different. The best way I can describe the difference is that the hardware sounds a bit more defuse. Not super noticeable on a single voice, but when you hold down a chord, you can definitely notice it. For some sounds, the coherent sound of Repro is actually preferable. That little bit of difference is quite expensive, but worth it to me. The interface is nice to have, as is the available voices with no CPU hit. The distortion on the 6 is nice too, a bit more wild sounding and doesn’t show the aliasing in the upper registers that the software shows. The high pass filter is really nice too.

I definitely wouldn’t buy a Prophet 5 r4, though. In all honesty, I don’t think it sounds as good as the Prophet 6. People are all going crazy for it, but I’m not really hearing anything that I consider to be “better,” and for that price, it should make you weep.

I had an Evolver for a long time, the way those synths are made with stereo out, I think makes quite the difference vs VST's. They just sound more full. When you compare your P6 to the Repro, do you agree or disagree that the P6 sounds wider or more full?

[AnX]

mono vs stereo?

interesting....

[GRUMP]

So to say

[twisted-space]

I had an Evolver for a long time

Then you would remember that the Evolver is a stereo synth...

"True stereo signal path with separate Curtis analog low-pass filters in each channel"

The Prophet 5 and 6 are not.

[vertibration]

ahhhh I thought they were, my bad

[Urs]

I didnt catch that, sorry. Im not as active on this forum to have known that you addressed this previously.

No worries. I had a bad night of sleep, and as you can imagine, this video - as much as I love it for most parts - and the one or two notes that sound different for having actually played different notes, it's been brought to my attention many times. So there's a bit of "low end argument fatique" on my side, and a bit of "please not again", but it isn't anything personal at all, just my hopefully human reaction to a common itch.

I do still think that there can be a low end improvement, I will try to find other comparisons and post them if I can find them.

I'm happy to hear those. Just make sure to avoid common Youtube pitfalls. Often, people refer to "analogue demonstrations" that ooze delay and reverb. As often as people say "yeah, but I can hear past the effects", they can not - otherwise they'd put the same effects on the software and we're done.

Thing is, any emphasize of bottom end must be expressed by some set of capacitors and resistors in the circuit diagram of a synth (unless it's a fault that requires fixing). If it ain't there, it ain't there. There's no hidden magic that somehow defeats analysis. If one can not measure it, it is probably a matter of cerebral anticipation.

But then also, chances are high that two synths of the same kind do sound different after 40 years. If our P5 is an average P5, there's a good chance that 4000 P5s sound slightly better to your taste. But that's not an argument one would make with the hardware, really, and I'm not gonna chase up on whatever many P5s are left to find better ones.