Selecting a long-term, high-quality Granular/sound design instrument

[Lind0n]

Does anyone have anything to mention about granular/sample mangling inside of Kontakt? I should probably just google it and start seeing what's what.

--snip---

OK so I wrote three of only a very small number of granular engines for Kontakt - and before you ask - no you cant use it in anything other than the product(and sounds) they ship with - the products are called:

Seurat
Tempus
Orchestral Dust

(google these - they are on a number of distributor sites and you can hear demos - Orchestral Dust is even on my site www.channelrobot.com)

- So can you write your own "granular engine" in Kontakt? - Well clearly yes - I did it, the more meaningful question might be:

How hard is it to do? - and the answer is a bit "it depends" -- how many separate "grain processes" do you want to run? How many different sound sources do you want to run them against? - The products named above run a single "grain process" on each of two voices - its slightly more complex than this in that the grains have a very wide selection of attributes that the user can set that makes it "seem" like there's more processes than that - it sounds "thicker" than just two grain processes running at the same time.

But before I disappear down a rabbit hole of explaining granular theory and my warped approach to it - lets cut to the TLDR answer - how hard --- VERY. I had around 10 years of KSP scripting under my belt before I got to this - perhaps many KSP developers would be quicker and do a better job - but if you are starting out --- this ones marked on the map as: "there be dragons here..."

Caveat: Kontakt has moved on a bit since I did this stuff in 5.8+ and I dont really spend much time in Kontakt anymore - I'm more your VST/Au developer these days) so it might be a whole lot easier now...

[psynical]

you might also consider Bitwig, which can do just about anything granular in the Grid...

https://youtu.be/fq1AhDzraGA

https://youtu.be/Gzk6t-vemTc

[E_Anderson]

lets cut to the TLDR answer - how hard --- VERY. if you are starting out --- this ones marked on the map as: "there be dragons here..."

Caveat: Kontakt has moved on a bit since I did this stuff in 5.8+ and I dont really spend much time in Kontakt anymore - I'm more your VST/Au developer these days) so it might be a whole lot easier now...

I've heard from a knowledgeable acquaintance that many good developers prefer to work in the v5's still, so that may mean something.

I appreciate your thorough post, it answered (and created!) many questions. It'll be fun to have it around... to probably have it around. I have a lot of learning to do yet on this percussion/sample library business. To be designing VSTs sounds exciting, congratulations!

you might also consider Bitwig

Thanks! I've been eying this a bit, but I'll keep it in mind for when I potentially sidegrade to an additional DAW in months/maybe(probably) 1-3 years. FL Studio is meeting my needs right now, but I could run into problems apparently on the front of midi and audio where, in a way which is at this time conceptual for me, a more traditional DAW performs better... So far, no complaints, but I am also not very deep in. I love Patcher and FL's modularity, so I'm sure Bitwig would be very, very fun to say the least.

=============

I have reason to believe Phase Plant is going to add granular functionality, and given how much I think it may be expanding the pallet of my sounds without it, I'm willing to just commit to it and Padshop2 for the time being for granular+everything that I wouldn't use Harmor for. So on the front of granular, for me, the conversation has at least paused. Resources may be better spent for me in another way at this time, though if Phase Plant can't satisfy soon enough and I grow weary for a spectral-osc-less cloudy granular experience, rest assured I'll be back, asking about Falcon and Rapid and beating around the bush with Crusher-X. Thank you all for the replies.

[pdxindy]

you might also consider Bitwig, which can do just about anything granular in the Grid...

The granular in Bitwig is a bit limited. The grain length could be a bit longer and there are no windowing options. Bitwig is an awesome sound design playground, especially for MPE, but if someone is specifically looking for granular, there are more full feature options.

[jancivil]

Crusher-X is the king/queen and you can use it as a Midi-controlled synthesizer, not only as an effect.

Wowie zowie! Thanks for the tip and also because I really want this thing (and I've been buying)! There's that one video demonstration of it really knocked my sock off https://youtu.be/NMbAUasAMbc


stunning. this is so totally where I want to go

[Sampleconstruct]

Crusher-X is the king/queen and you can use it as a Midi-controlled synthesizer, not only as an effect.

Wowie zowie! Thanks for the tip and also because I really want this thing (and I've been buying)! There's that one video demonstration of it really knocked my sock off https://youtu.be/NMbAUasAMbc


stunning. this is so totally where I want to go

Yeah, I made that vid when version 8 was released containing all those additional oscillators, FM, RM and whatnot, the possibilities with this thing are just wild.

[vurt]

Crusher-X is the king/queen and you can use it as a Midi-controlled synthesizer, not only as an effect.

Wowie zowie! Thanks for the tip and also because I really want this thing (and I've been buying)! There's that one video demonstration of it really knocked my sock off https://youtu.be/NMbAUasAMbc


stunning. this is so totally where I want to go

crusher x is amazing.
i had it many versions ago on an old dead machine.
can only imagine how much has been added since.
is it expensive? yes.
is it worth it? hell yes!

[jancivil]

Its price is not all that high considering its apparent power IMO, but I gotta get Synchron Strings Pro at the introductory price before it expires [Nov 2] as well.

an embarrassment of riches these days, so many superb things being developed

[Shabdahbriah]

Its price is not all that high considering its apparent power IMO, but I gotta get Synchron Strings Pro at the introductory price before it expires [Nov 2] as well.

an embarrassment of riches these days, so many superb things being developed

Here's a walk-through/tutorials series. older versions (6 or 7, I think) but still:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyugqG5mPio

[leeleema]

It looks lovely but goodness, 'tis pricy! Pricing at about 1/3 might garner 10 times more customers. Maybe, I don't know. I think it's good he's sticking to a price though, just needs to be lower

[Effectsworks]

I bought SpaceCraft on Neon Breaths recommendation. I've been having a ball with it...

But Damn, Crusher-X looks very tempting!

[vurt]

Its price is not all that high considering its apparent power IMO,

thats what i mean, if you look at the price compared to granular synth a, it looks expensive.
but if you compare what it is, you see the price is quite reasonable.

as i said, i was on an older version, and even then it was more of a granular studio, with various options.
looking at recent videos, it looks like an even deeper product, the addition of midi to make the sounds playable

very tempting!
although, i know people are pushing for him to release a module for eurorack, that granular engine in my modular? errr yes effing please!!!!

[vitocorleone123]

Also: Audio Damage Quanta
(esp cheap if you get it on the iPad to try it out, plus it has MPE).

[Neon Breath]

I bought SpaceCraft on Neon Breaths recommendation. I've been having a ball with it

very fun granular synth, with a unique workflow like no other. Have fun!

[bmanic]

Nobody mentioned Reaktor yet? Yes you sort of have to build your own device if you want the end-all-be-all-ultra-mega-granular thing.. but there are tons of awesome ensembles available in the user library from where you can "borrow" ideas.