Why did you leave Studio One?
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- KVRAF
- 2675 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Australia
Out of interest, are people seeing stability issues (and the weird stuff mentioned above) on Windows or macOS? I'm currently demoing S1 5.1 on Windows 10 and have yet to crash it, so it seems pretty solid here at least.
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- GRRRRRRR!
- 15939 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle
It's all macOS, Studio One is rock-solid on a proper computer (PC). Apple are clearly abandoning their professional user base, I don't know why anyone would not be looking to jump ship at this stage.
In the end, it's a matter of making the effort to adjust your workflow to get the best out of the application. You work the way you do now because that's how you learned to work with whatever host you currently use but each host has their own optimum workflow and, as long as you can live with it, adapting to a new environment makes a lot more sense to me than expecting everything to be set-up exactly to your specifications. That kind of thinking had me stuck in a rut with Orion for at least 5, probably more like 10 years longer than I should have.
Maybe if they used Studio One instead, they wouldn't need to finish things off in Pro Tools?
Idiots can complain all they like, in the last three months I've ported over and/or created almost 40 songs in Studio One, working an average of something like 5-6 hours a day, and in all that time I have experienced exactly one crash. That was in the first couple of weeks I had it, when I was still clicking all over the place trying to find stuff. Beyond that, the number of issues I've had are miniscule compared to every other host I've used. It's stability and speed are the best things about it. Even with a dozen songs loaded, it's fast, fluid and absolutely rock solid.
and Cubase (version 7) were doing. Via the facebook group never seen so many complaints for Presonus as for bugs/crashes.Maybe you just need to learn how to use it? Left-drag selects notes. The piano roll isn't as good as Orion's but it is better than every other piano roll I've ever tried. And the multi-tool you can use in the arrange window is a great idea for what you're talking about. e.g. Double-click in the top half of a track and you split it, double-click in the lower half and you select it and send it to the Piano Roll display. The cursor changes, so you know what to expect, which makes it a breeze.
So toggle it off ("N" key) or set it up in a way that works better for you. Personally, I couldn't work with it if it didn't snap to grid. It saves me having to zoom in to make selections.I don't like how the select tool snaps to grid.
Yeah, this one would be handy but it's not a deal breaker. I've actually developed a really good workaround - enter all the notes at their default length and, when you're finished, select them and stretch them all out to the desired length at once. In conjunction with the way duplication works, it's probably the fastest way of building an arrangement I've come across.Lastly, I want to be able to get the editor to remember the length of the last note when inserting a new note.
In the end, it's a matter of making the effort to adjust your workflow to get the best out of the application. You work the way you do now because that's how you learned to work with whatever host you currently use but each host has their own optimum workflow and, as long as you can live with it, adapting to a new environment makes a lot more sense to me than expecting everything to be set-up exactly to your specifications. That kind of thinking had me stuck in a rut with Orion for at least 5, probably more like 10 years longer than I should have.
Why? I'm in the opposite camp - I think it's great and it speeds my workflow up no end.stillshaded wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:57 pmFunny you mentioned the selection tools snapping to grid, that always bothered me more than it seems it should.
Ha-ha-ha! The PR is the heart of every host, except FL, where it was tacked on at some point, almost as an afterthought. I used Fruityloops for several years and it never had a piano roll at all during that time. Maybe they added it when they rebranded it as FL Studio?I think the FL studio midi editor is a great standard to compare to. It always seems like midi editors are just tacked on without thought it in most DAWs.
I think it's the opposite because they all pretty much work the same way, each with a few features that makes them a tiny bit easier or harder to use. But I prefer the S1 piano roll to Cubase or Bitwig's, that's for sure. Again, it's a simple matter of taking the time to learn how to get the best from it. Having done that, I reckon S1's PR is the fastest, most fluid I have used (Except Orion, which is dead and doesn't count any more).It never seems like they took the time to learn a couple of midi editors in other DAWs, and get fluent with them before they design their own.
Are you kidding? It is so much like Cubase I found the learning curve almost non-existent. I was up and running in literally a day and after a month I reckon I was as comfortable with it as I had ever been using Cubase. Today, after three months, I think I know Studio One even better than I know Cubase.morelia wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:05 pmI left it mostly because I was lazy. I had watched a lot of videos and they all made it look so accessible which I'm sure it is. It was just taking me too long to learn it. So I went back to what I know best Cubase and Reaper. Not even sure why I decided to try something else.
It seems to me the problem isn't the applications so much as the platform you run them on. If Apple can't make stable software for its own OS, then what hope is there? As I said above, I've had one crash in 3 months, but I didn't lose any work, and that was during my learning stage when I wasn't using it very well.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.
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- KVRAF
- 5051 posts since 16 May, 2002 from Brisbane , Australia
No I'm not kidding. But I guess it shows how one user experience can be so different from another user's. Glad it worked out for you though.BONES wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:10 amAre you kidding? It is so much like Cubase I found the learning curve almost non-existent. I was up and running in literally a day and after a month I reckon I was as comfortable with it as I had ever been using Cubase. Today, after three months, I think I know Studio One even better than I know Cubase.morelia wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:05 pmI left it mostly because I was lazy. I had watched a lot of videos and they all made it look so accessible which I'm sure it is. It was just taking me too long to learn it. So I went back to what I know best Cubase and Reaper. Not even sure why I decided to try something else.
Intel Core i7 8700K, 16gb, Windows 10 Pro, Focusrite Scarlet 6i6
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 273 posts since 7 Nov, 2009 from DC
I use Studio One on two computers with 64 GB of ram and two SSD drives. I'm good. It's other users I'm talking about. It might work you, but not for the next person. But then again some users might be doing more challenging projects then you. You might be only pressing play singing and playing guitar. I don't know... As for Cubase, no modern music producer uses that anymore.BONES wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:10 am It's all macOS, Studio One is rock-solid on a proper computer (PC). Apple are clearly abandoning their professional user base, I don't know why anyone would not be looking to jump ship at this stage.Maybe if they used Studio One instead, they wouldn't need to finish things off in Pro Tools?Idiots can complain all they like, in the last three months I've ported over and/or created almost 40 songs in Studio One, working an average of something like 5-6 hours a day, and in all that time I have experienced exactly one crash. That was in the first couple of weeks I had it, when I was still clicking all over the place trying to find stuff. Beyond that, the number of issues I've had are miniscule compared to every other host I've used. It's stability and speed are the best things about it. Even with a dozen songs loaded, it's fast, fluid and absolutely rock solid.Maybe you just need to learn how to use it? Left-drag selects notes. The piano roll isn't as good as Orion's but it is better than every other piano roll I've ever tried. And the multi-tool you can use in the arrange window is a great idea for what you're talking about. e.g. Double-click in the top half of a track and you split it, double-click in the lower half and you select it and send it to the Piano Roll display. The cursor changes, so you know what to expect, which makes it a breeze.So toggle it off ("N" key) or set it up in a way that works better for you. Personally, I couldn't work with it if it didn't snap to grid. It saves me having to zoom in to make selections.I don't like how the select tool snaps to grid.Yeah, this one would be handy but it's not a deal breaker. I've actually developed a really good workaround - enter all the notes at their default length and, when you're finished, select them and stretch them all out to the desired length at once. In conjunction with the way duplication works, it's probably the fastest way of building an arrangement I've come across.Lastly, I want to be able to get the editor to remember the length of the last note when inserting a new note.
In the end, it's a matter of making the effort to adjust your workflow to get the best out of the application. You work the way you do now because that's how you learned to work with whatever host you currently use but each host has their own optimum workflow and, as long as you can live with it, adapting to a new environment makes a lot more sense to me than expecting everything to be set-up exactly to your specifications. That kind of thinking had me stuck in a rut with Orion for at least 5, probably more like 10 years longer than I should have.Why? I'm in the opposite camp - I think it's great and it speeds my workflow up no end.stillshaded wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:57 pmFunny you mentioned the selection tools snapping to grid, that always bothered me more than it seems it should.Ha-ha-ha! The PR is the heart of every host, except FL, where it was tacked on at some point, almost as an afterthought. I used Fruityloops for several years and it never had a piano roll at all during that time. Maybe they added it when they rebranded it as FL Studio?I think the FL studio midi editor is a great standard to compare to. It always seems like midi editors are just tacked on without thought it in most DAWs.I think it's the opposite because they all pretty much work the same way, each with a few features that makes them a tiny bit easier or harder to use. But I prefer the S1 piano roll to Cubase or Bitwig's, that's for sure. Again, it's a simple matter of taking the time to learn how to get the best from it. Having done that, I reckon S1's PR is the fastest, most fluid I have used (Except Orion, which is dead and doesn't count any more).It never seems like they took the time to learn a couple of midi editors in other DAWs, and get fluent with them before they design their own.Are you kidding? It is so much like Cubase I found the learning curve almost non-existent. I was up and running in literally a day and after a month I reckon I was as comfortable with it as I had ever been using Cubase. Today, after three months, I think I know Studio One even better than I know Cubase.morelia wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:05 pmI left it mostly because I was lazy. I had watched a lot of videos and they all made it look so accessible which I'm sure it is. It was just taking me too long to learn it. So I went back to what I know best Cubase and Reaper. Not even sure why I decided to try something else.It seems to me the problem isn't the applications so much as the platform you run them on. If Apple can't make stable software for its own OS, then what hope is there? As I said above, I've had one crash in 3 months, but I didn't lose any work, and that was during my learning stage when I wasn't using it very well.
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- KVRAF
- 6419 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden
Left at 4.6 I think it was in february.
Showstopper was for me that recording midi cc always converted to automation approach.
This is by choice in Cubase and Cakewalk to mention a couple.
What this does is creating first appearance of a midi cc in a clip also as initial value.
It fix to handle some known on/off usually like cc#64 for sustain pedal, since previous value always would be zero if non-zero as recorded.
But in this case Hammond sent NRPN for leslie on/off. So I did not get why did leslie turn on already at start of clip instead of where I touched it. And found reason to be how they handle midi cc in general.
Example
Grabbing a knob on synth on decay or attack of envelope as you record - and turn it some time during recording.
But later playing back, this first value is sent already at start of clip and assumed to be initial value, kind of.
To remedy what StudioOne do to this you have to know what initial value was in that particular preset for each of knobs touched, and see to that automation curve start at clip with this value.
Hellish job doing realtime tweaks like that.
And you have to know which midi cc each knob has on each synth as well, to even start thinking about fixing it.
So looking again at Cakewalk for doing Sonar some years ago, I found that a handful of feature requests I had for StudioOne was already there in Cakewalk. So made the jump and have not regretted yet.
I can grab any knob and tweak in realtime as I record midi and everything plays back as when I started.
Always having preset freshly selected when starting of course, so all values are as saved when starting.
Things I've been doing more and more last years. This in lack of whirling self generating presets I do it manually. But am working more and more in DeepMind and Wavestate to create these things in modulation without having to touch anything. Will probably get PolyBrute later too for these things with such extensive modulation matrix. Nice with these pseudo random things happening to pads etc. Much more alive feel to it.
Showstopper was for me that recording midi cc always converted to automation approach.
This is by choice in Cubase and Cakewalk to mention a couple.
What this does is creating first appearance of a midi cc in a clip also as initial value.
It fix to handle some known on/off usually like cc#64 for sustain pedal, since previous value always would be zero if non-zero as recorded.
But in this case Hammond sent NRPN for leslie on/off. So I did not get why did leslie turn on already at start of clip instead of where I touched it. And found reason to be how they handle midi cc in general.
Example
Grabbing a knob on synth on decay or attack of envelope as you record - and turn it some time during recording.
But later playing back, this first value is sent already at start of clip and assumed to be initial value, kind of.
To remedy what StudioOne do to this you have to know what initial value was in that particular preset for each of knobs touched, and see to that automation curve start at clip with this value.
Hellish job doing realtime tweaks like that.
And you have to know which midi cc each knob has on each synth as well, to even start thinking about fixing it.
So looking again at Cakewalk for doing Sonar some years ago, I found that a handful of feature requests I had for StudioOne was already there in Cakewalk. So made the jump and have not regretted yet.
I can grab any knob and tweak in realtime as I record midi and everything plays back as when I started.
Always having preset freshly selected when starting of course, so all values are as saved when starting.
Things I've been doing more and more last years. This in lack of whirling self generating presets I do it manually. But am working more and more in DeepMind and Wavestate to create these things in modulation without having to touch anything. Will probably get PolyBrute later too for these things with such extensive modulation matrix. Nice with these pseudo random things happening to pads etc. Much more alive feel to it.
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- KVRAF
- 2675 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Australia
Just to add my 2cents, I'm a very long-time Cubase user and have to agree that S1 is extremely similar in workflow to Cubase. During my trial of 5.1, what's impressed me the most about S1 is its stability and well thought-out UI.
Compared to Cubase, S1 has the following advanatges (for me):
* No dongle
* More stable
* Much more consistent and streamlined UI and clearer menus
* Lower and more stable CPU usage on an equivalent project
* Multi-instruments (instrument layering)
* Effect chains and splits
* Much better inspector (you can see everything at once in S1, going back to Cubase felt clunky to me straight away)
* Easier automation
* Ability to create a group channel for a folder easily
* Ability to have multiple projects open at once with no issue
* Mixer is less cluttered, I never use the built-in channel EQ or rack in Cubase, and generally everything is much more padded which means it's harder to fit as much on the screen
* Ability to draw regular lines and curves for MIDI automation (instead of the multiple points in the Cubase editor)
* Breakdown of CPU use by plugin! (gosh I wish Cubase had that!)
On Cubase' end, the following seem better to me;
* Expression maps are far more powerful in Cubase (this is probably the biggest drawback of S1 for me right now)
* It's possible to easily split a clip into multiple clips of a certain length (the equivalent in S1 is less intuitive and only lets you slice at intervals of 1 bar as the max length)
* Better transient detection, S1 seems pretty bad on this front tbh, Cubase isn't perfect but it's better
* More audiowarp algorithms, I actually like the Cubase algorithms more than Elastique for most things (e.g. the Drums and Solo algorithms in particular are imho better than Elastique options, which are also available in Cubase if you want them)
* I generally prefer the appearance of Cubase (9.5), it is generally prettier, cleaner and a bit easier to read text on
At the rate that Presonus are adding features, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm an S1 user full-time in the next year after using Cubase since ... SL3.
Compared to Cubase, S1 has the following advanatges (for me):
* No dongle
* More stable
* Much more consistent and streamlined UI and clearer menus
* Lower and more stable CPU usage on an equivalent project
* Multi-instruments (instrument layering)
* Effect chains and splits
* Much better inspector (you can see everything at once in S1, going back to Cubase felt clunky to me straight away)
* Easier automation
* Ability to create a group channel for a folder easily
* Ability to have multiple projects open at once with no issue
* Mixer is less cluttered, I never use the built-in channel EQ or rack in Cubase, and generally everything is much more padded which means it's harder to fit as much on the screen
* Ability to draw regular lines and curves for MIDI automation (instead of the multiple points in the Cubase editor)
* Breakdown of CPU use by plugin! (gosh I wish Cubase had that!)
On Cubase' end, the following seem better to me;
* Expression maps are far more powerful in Cubase (this is probably the biggest drawback of S1 for me right now)
* It's possible to easily split a clip into multiple clips of a certain length (the equivalent in S1 is less intuitive and only lets you slice at intervals of 1 bar as the max length)
* Better transient detection, S1 seems pretty bad on this front tbh, Cubase isn't perfect but it's better
* More audiowarp algorithms, I actually like the Cubase algorithms more than Elastique for most things (e.g. the Drums and Solo algorithms in particular are imho better than Elastique options, which are also available in Cubase if you want them)
* I generally prefer the appearance of Cubase (9.5), it is generally prettier, cleaner and a bit easier to read text on
At the rate that Presonus are adding features, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm an S1 user full-time in the next year after using Cubase since ... SL3.
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- KVRist
- 106 posts since 27 Sep, 2020
You kind of put Cubase into perspective for me...I've been using it for the past ten years only because I'm so used to it. Studio one does seem to have a lot going for it.fgimian wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:47 am Just to add my 2cents, I'm a very long-time Cubase user and have to agree that S1 is extremely similar in workflow to Cubase. During my trial of 5.1, what's impressed me the most about S1 is its stability and well thought-out UI.
Compared to Cubase, S1 has the following advanatges (for me):
* No dongle
* More stable
* Much more consistent and streamlined UI and clearer menus
* Lower and more stable CPU usage on an equivalent project
* Multi-instruments (instrument layering)
* Effect chains and splits
* Much better inspector (you can see everything at once in S1, going back to Cubase felt clunky to me straight away)
* Easier automation
* Ability to create a group channel for a folder easily
* Ability to have multiple projects open at once with no issue
* Mixer is less cluttered, I never use the built-in channel EQ or rack in Cubase, and generally everything is much more padded which means it's harder to fit as much on the screen
* Ability to draw regular lines and curves for MIDI automation (instead of the multiple points in the Cubase editor)
* Breakdown of CPU use by plugin! (gosh I wish Cubase had that!)
On Cubase' end, the following seem better to me;
* Expression maps are far more powerful in Cubase (this is probably the biggest drawback of S1 for me right now)
* It's possible to easily split a clip into multiple clips of a certain length (the equivalent in S1 is less intuitive and only lets you slice at intervals of 1 bar as the max length)
* Better transient detection, S1 seems pretty bad on this front tbh, Cubase isn't perfect but it's better
* More audiowarp algorithms, I actually like the Cubase algorithms more than Elastique for most things (e.g. the Drums and Solo algorithms in particular are imho better than Elastique options, which are also available in Cubase if you want them)
* I generally prefer the appearance of Cubase (9.5), it is generally prettier, cleaner and a bit easier to read text on
At the rate that Presonus are adding features, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm an S1 user full-time in the next year after using Cubase since ... SL3.
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- KVRAF
- 2675 posts since 14 Jul, 2005 from Australia
Honestly writing my post started to put it into perspective for me too, haha.
I already purchased the Cubase 10.5 upgrade but didn't activate it when it was 40% off so that I could get Cubase 11 when it came out, so really that will be a big deciding factor for me. I'm on Cubase 9.5 at the moment because there really weren't any features in 10 or 10.5 that appealed to me greatly.
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- KVRer
- 15 posts since 17 Aug, 2020
Well I had the subscription for a while. It is a great DAW that I was just getting into, but I reasoned with myself that since I got Logic and I can do everything there that I need (plus I'm working with Logic since forever, so I know it well) that I don't need to invest in a second DAW. + Alchemy from Logic is great as well. But damn I already miss the MIDI editing options from Studio One... and if I snatch a good price for it in the future I might jump ship for good!! ... some people are saying it is still not so good to work with video, so that is one last thing I have to check (and get Omnispeher so I'm done with synts for good 
) ...
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- KVRAF
- 1524 posts since 6 Nov, 2012
Lack of foresight. Some company sensed that every individual will get their laptop eventually and it becomes powerful enough to run any program, which becomes large market. They don't carry midi keyboard or dongle. By the way, that company is still using donglePassing Bye wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm Yeah, if only Cakewalk, Steinberg, eMagic and rest knew back than that they should cater to future bedroom producers who will just pencil in everything.
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- KVRAF
- 11156 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
Precisely, those people will no doubt have started with Live or FL. I can’t believe they would have ‘started’ with a linear DAW like S1 having never heard of Live or FL then discovered them and switched!
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
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- KVRist
- 253 posts since 19 May, 2017 from Ukraine, Odesa
I am the one.
9 years of Logic, 3 years of Studio One.
I really like studio one and all, but! This year was a DAW journey for me. I intentionally wanted to create at least 5 tracks in all major daws to see how it feels.
(Cubase 10.5, Studio One 5, Bitwig, FL Studio, Ableton Live, Logic, Reaper)
This journey landed me on BWS and Live island. IDK why but horizontal track fx make more sense to me now than the usual vertical one.
Feature-wise I like S1 more, but I enjoy creating in Live (despite its awful midi editing).
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- KVRAF
- 4461 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
Why do you think so for electronic music???
I think you would be astonished how many leave the standard linear DAW way to find much more creative and flexible ways of working...
Both have their advantages and shortcomings but it would be wrong to rate one higher than the other... it´s just personal preference...
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- KVRAF
- 4461 posts since 27 Jul, 2004
And you are by far not alone...and in good company...
There are many many (famous) people who have switched from the golden standards to the alternatives...
