Why you left Bitwig?

[pdxindy]

Bitwig is adding all the "beyond" imagination features to the DAW, but adding a midi review for midi files by selecting a midi file in the browser and routing it to the selected instrument, is "beyond" difficult! (Live is not better). This is the main reason that I left those DAWs and returned to Cubase/S1.

They are wonderful DAWs (Bitwig and Live), but I need this small feature so I can browse the kits/patterns I have till I find something near to what I want! The trend is though, to make your own beats. Oh, and what if I use third party drums. No luck finding a mapping and just use it (Battery 4?). I don't use MPE and don't even use Aftertouch! The music I like doesn't do such huge amount of modulations! But, I do use a score editor sometimes. Anyway, maybe it is not the DAW, it is just me became old fashioned and "beyond" repaired

There is no problem... There are a variety of tools for the variety of user interests.

Btw, a guitar has tons modulation going on all the time... and is MPE

[perpetual3]

@scoox On Mac 16” MBP fully loaded, I cannot run 3 times the instances of Diva in Bitwig than Live. Pretty much similar in my case.

[tooneba]

If Bitwig does everything Live does, and then more, bigger, faster and better, then Live users would probably consider switching. I recently read on Ableton's forum that Bitwig could 3 times the number of Diva instances Live could run, and some users were very intrigued. Stability, efficiency, ergonomics, neat little features that enhance the overall UX are a deal-breaker for many of us. I use FL Studio and, sure, it does everything and more, but it's a huge UX mess, so I'm looking for a DAW that can do more or less the same stuff and offers a workflow that doesn't make me want to shoot my DAW in the face. Live has its share of limitations and issues and I have no doubt some users are constantly on the lookout for greener pastures.

I think no software has achieved to keep simplicity through acquiring more features. Screen real estate is limited and GUI can't present all features there. Implying features dynamically on screen also costs computer resources. Both ways have disadvantages. Ableton is suffering from high GPU usage after they renewed GUI rendering (at 10?). You can undo everything in ableton but it becomes so laggy and even rearranging track order lagging in relatively large project. When they add some features there are always drawbacks. If user can ignore them for the usefulness they may compromise and can make use of it.

[antic604]

If Bitwig does everything Live does, and then more, bigger, faster and better, then Live users would probably consider switching.

It doesn't have to do everything better, though. It's enough that certain things that people value are better / faster / smarter. For some music genres the "modular synth with built-in DAW" is actually what people want and need, because compositions aren't based on elaborate MIDI patterns, arcane chord progressions and bizantine orchestration. For such genres - like lots of ambient, glitch, techno, trance, general EDM - sound design & modulation are key and this is where Bitwig excels, even though it doesn't have e.g. restrospective recording or step input.

Lots of what I - and I see many others - do is e.g. simple, few note patterns that are further modified by note effects, arpeggiators, note filters and the sound itself gets split further into several audio paths, each going through dedicated effect chains, often with random switches controlling what's happening and when. It's usually not something that's impossible in other DAWs, but it's so much more effortles, quicker and more satisfying in Bitwig. And it's enough to transform the experience and make it worth it! I prefer to "suffer" for the 5-10 minutes when I need to edit MIDI or audio, but have fun for the 10+ hours while I'm making patches, building stuff in Grid or designing complex sound & FX chains with devices.

So as I usually say - pick a DAW that's the best for the thing you do the most of, and the least annoying for everything else

And to end with anecdotal evidence - I personally switched from Live 9.7 Suite to Bitwig 2.3 (or 2.2) simply because... the former wasn't properly supporting trackpad gestures, touch screen and high-DPI plugins on Surface Pro 4 that I used then. And now, even though Live 10 fixed most of that, every time I go back to it it feels stiff, slow and limiting to me.

Everyone's different and values diffrent things.

Bitwig doesn't have to be better at everything, to find its userbase - often it's just one thing that's enough.

[pdxindy]

And to end with anecdotal evidence - I personally switched from Live 9.7 Suite to Bitwig 2.3 (or 2.2) simply because... the former wasn't properly supporting trackpad gestures, touch screen and high-DPI plugins on Surface Pro 4 that I used then. And now, even though Live 10 fixed most of that, every time I go back to it it feels stiff, slow and limiting to me.

Everyone's different and values different things.

Bitwig doesn't have to be better at everything, to find its userbase - often it's just one thing that's enough.

For me, that thing is MPE.

I left Live because of it. I'm glad Bitwig has continued to develop their MPE implementation. I'm glad Bitwig improved their Arpeggiator in 3.2. Since it is MPE aware now, I can do stuff with it not possible with other arpeggiators. Using my Linnstrument, I can play a set of notes and the individual pressure of each note controls the velocity of those notes in the arp. So I can bring notes in and out and do pitch slides while the arp is playing which offers new ways of realtime expressive playing. Creative new musical possibilities is more important to me than whether piano roll editing is perfect.

[pdxindy]

The BW 3.3 update adds a wavetable module and Polymer. That's all great and well but Bitwig is beginning to look like a virtual modular synth with a built-in DAW, rather than the other way around. Since I already use IMO very capable third-party synths, my sound synthesis needs are (and have been for a long time) well covered. Hopefully this trend won't continue indefinitely. In short, I want the DAW side of Bitwig to get more attention.

3.3 adds much more than a Wavetable Osc and Polymer. 3.3 also added a number of improvements on the DAW side...

3.3 adds the ability to stretch audio and midi clips, events, selections and automation and much improved fades, on clip gain control, AVX2 optimized audio engine, and the new Sections Page. These are all improvements on the DAW side. Lots of the fixes/tiny improvements are also on the DAW side.

And every major DAW has its own instruments and FX... they all have a sampler, eq, etc. Those are important parts of a DAW as well. Bitwig adding EQ+ in 3.2 is not some weird experimental modular thing.

IMO, the modulation modifiers are also part of the DAW side, cause they add capability across the board... not just for all Bitwig devices but for all 3rd party instruments and FX. That is core DAW capability.

[SLiC]

I didn't leave anything to use Bitwig, I just added it as another type of DAW.

It has some stuff in common with Live (clips, racks) and some stuff in common with linear DAWS like Logic/S1 and 'modular' programs like 'Reaktor' but it's definitely its own thing now.

Bitwig is maybe 'best in class' in a number of areas (MPE, expression, modulation, CV control, modularity) but they are all quite niche...I totally get however why they went that route as they have carved out a core demographic from other DAWS as a 'base' to build on.

Being 'best in class' at midi editing will be a reach against Cubase etc that have been doing it forever, but they could take a big leap on the audio side by adding Comping which may be the one thing that may move a few Live users...although they didn't move in mass for in clip editing which was always a highly requested feature, so I take all that stuff with a pinch of salt!

[SLiC]

IMO, the modulation modifiers are also part of the DAW side, cause they add capability across the board... not just for all Bitwig devices but for all 3rd party instruments and FX. That is core DAW capability.

This

Modulation is the new 'Automation'

Every VST instrument and Fx you own will have 30+ new modulation sources in Bitwig integrated in to the rack...so fast and fun, nothing lese gets close to Bitwig for this stuff.

[Passing Bye]

There are more, probably, these are the ones I have personally requested directly to Bigwig by email. I actually keep a list of things I've requested/reported so I can keep track, again, another reason why relying on email for user feedback is a bad system. People discuss ideas on the forum but I'm not sure Bitwig read those.

Interesting list, but personally, nothing here is really stopping anyone from making music successfully in Bitwig, nothing really major or basic is missing, it's almost all rather small and personal features that could be great additions and improvements, but still core of the DAW is perfectly functional without them, it's not like comping, video support and etc, those really are missing features.

Dunno, I remember when I wanted to get into MuLab and started sending Jo this kind of FR list's, he was through the roof with FR like that and everyone wanted to shape MuLab the way they saw it fit, think he told me really politely something like, if I can't appreciate the MuLab the way it's now, than it's not for me, he was right, it didn't work for me than, it doesn't work for me now when he made some of those features reality.

Having said all that, Bitwig worked for me and it kept getting better and better, I realized what Jo was talking about, what I already had was enough for me to make music without much frustration, sure I can make my own FR list again and all that, but sincerely I don't see that features that important and I wouldn't get back to Logic or any DAW because of any of those... Logic 10.5 came out and in theory it should knock me from my feet, but when I tried to get into it again, realized we grew apart, it doesn't really work for me, it's amazing DAW, but Bitwig fits my way of working even if it misses tons of small features I previously had, they don't make much difference overall compared to big picture.

So if anyone is happy with Live or any other DAW, I seriously doubt they will jump from it for any reason, I love my wife the way she is and I'm happy without having the need to fix her in any way and vice versa, but still there are tons of people who keep doing the opposite, always wanting more, improvement, always seeking for something more perfect, getting divorced over trivial things and being really unhappy because they expect too much from others, same goes for DAW's, all this "why you left DAW X" threads had me scratching my head for most part when I see some of the reasons, like watching "Shallow Hal" when below average superficial guy is dumping above his league gorgeous women that likes him because she had one toe little bigger than other and stuff like that.

[Spring Goose]

I'm still waiting for Bitwig to deliver an update that focuses on bread-and-butter features, basically one that is all about implementing the features Live has and Bitwig doesn't yet. When that's done Live users might start jumping ship.

If Live does what Bitwig can do why would they jump ship?... You have to give them incentive to discard their existing project files and flexibility of popular save file type. If you want to convince people to change their DAW you need huge advantage on top of basic things. I think they are just building unique advantage before they add basic things.

The Bitwig devs do both... They develop their own unique system and also add basic workflow stuff. It all just takes time. Obviously, if Bitwig doesn't suit a particular user as is, they should use something else.

They should use Reaper.

[Spring Goose]

There are more, probably, these are the ones I have personally requested directly to Bigwig by email. I actually keep a list of things I've requested/reported so I can keep track, again, another reason why relying on email for user feedback is a bad system. People discuss ideas on the forum but I'm not sure Bitwig read those.

Interesting list, but personally, nothing here is really stopping anyone from making music successfully in Bitwig,

I think Bitwig is practically perfect. I almost never think of something i need.

I mean i hear features for example "retrospective midi recording" and i think "yes that is something i'd like" but i hadn't noticed it's missing. (just press "record" before getting on the keys )

[vurt]

There are more, probably, these are the ones I have personally requested directly to Bigwig by email. I actually keep a list of things I've requested/reported so I can keep track, again, another reason why relying on email for user feedback is a bad system. People discuss ideas on the forum but I'm not sure Bitwig read those.

Interesting list, but personally, nothing here is really stopping anyone from making music successfully in Bitwig,

I think Bitwig is practically perfect. I almost never think of something i need.

I mean i hear features for example "retrospective midi recording" and i think "yes that is something i'd like" but i hadn't noticed it's missing. (just press "record" before getting on the keys )

lack of time travel in 2020? preposterous!

[liquidsound]

So if anyone is happy with Live or any other DAW, I seriously doubt they will jump from it for any reason, I love my wife the way she is and I'm happy without having the need to fix her in any way and vice versa, but still there are tons of people who keep doing the opposite, always wanting more, improvement, always seeking for something more perfect, getting divorced over trivial things and being really unhappy because they expect too much from others, same goes for DAW's, all this "why you left DAW X" threads had me scratching my head for most part when I see some of the reasons, like watching "Shallow Hal" when below average superficial guy is dumping above his league gorgeous women that likes him because she had one toe little bigger than other and stuff like that.

Very true indeed, and trying so hard to convince others (at every opportunity) to divorce for the "shiny or bigger toe" (well said).

I get it, MPE is crucial to some users, then definitely do the move.
Modulation madness crucial, then definitely move on.
Workflow... that's it for me and so many others. If you don't really have an established workflow because of jumping from one "Toe" to another than it's easy to pick the "Temporary" green grass.

I got to know MuLab and Ableton quite well and I'm even thinking of going to Berlin for in-depth knowledge once the beer virus it's over.

I think that investing quality time (and commitment) in you main tool IS CRUCIAL, but... so many Toes and so little time

[pdxindy]

There are more, probably, these are the ones I have personally requested directly to Bigwig by email. I actually keep a list of things I've requested/reported so I can keep track, again, another reason why relying on email for user feedback is a bad system. People discuss ideas on the forum but I'm not sure Bitwig read those.

Interesting list, but personally, nothing here is really stopping anyone from making music successfully in Bitwig, nothing really major or basic is missing, it's almost all rather small and personal features that could be great additions and improvements, but still core of the DAW is perfectly functional without them, it's not like comping, video support and etc, those really are missing features.

Lots of what people call 'basic' or 'bread-n-butter' features are quite new. Any one of the DAW's we talk about today would have been mind-blowing for people 20 years ago... and people made music before there even was a DAW.

The most important features for me are the ones that let me do things that I couldn't do otherwise... like recording audio or midi

And there is the thing. Live for example, doesn't even properly record the output of my midi controllers. One of the most basic functions in the DAW. Live has been around for such a long time and still is not able to record midi in compliance with the midi spec.

[vurt]

So if anyone is happy with Live or any other DAW, I seriously doubt they will jump from it for any reason, I love my wife the way she is and I'm happy without having the need to fix her in any way and vice versa, but still there are tons of people who keep doing the opposite, always wanting more, improvement, always seeking for something more perfect, getting divorced over trivial things and being really unhappy because they expect too much from others, same goes for DAW's, all this "why you left DAW X" threads had me scratching my head for most part when I see some of the reasons, like watching "Shallow Hal" when below average superficial guy is dumping above his league gorgeous women that likes him because she had one toe little bigger than other and stuff like that.

Very true indeed, and trying so hard to convince others (at every opportunity) to divorce for the "shiny or bigger toe" (well said).

I get it, MPE is crucial to some users, then definitely do the move.
Modulation madness crucial, then definitely move on.
Workflow... that's it for me and so many others. If you don't really have an established workflow because of jumping from one "Toe" to another than it's easy to pick the "Temporary" green grass.

I got to know MuLab and Ableton quite well and I'm even thinking of going to Berlin for in-depth knowledge once the beer virus it's over.

I think that investing quality time (and commitment) in you main tool IS CRUCIAL, but... so many Toes and so little time

i said something similar in the replacement for orion thread, finding a host that has it all is next to impossible, best to stick with one and work around its limits.
constant searching for perfection leaves you doing nothing but searching.

as a home user, (ie not college or work where i was forced to use additional hosts) over 18 years im on my 4th host.
orion, ext, samplitude and bidule.
always used ext in orion for extra routing, not really as a host.
samplitide i grabbed a few years ago, as orion was discontinued and was worried about losing it when my pc dies. bidule i again added for extra routing and off grid experiments.

some people here have used more hosts today alone