Why did you leave Studio One?

[chk071]

Or even worse, those developers that won't allow moving the license from one computer to another because they don't trust their customers.

Does that mean that you don't trust any of your fellow humans when you lock your front door or your car?

I trust everyone here, especially you, chk071

Thanks. Not sure if I deserve it...

[apoclypse]

Great that you have the time and inclination to work on those issues but I don't.

Are you stupid? I said that I have NO issues, that everything just works. I only included Orion in the interests of full disclosure but its development ended years ago, so it tends to be cranky with newer hardware and software. But at least I can still open it, something you couldn't say about most Mac software that's more than a few years old.

You also conveniently skipped the part about my TB interface which is far more important of an issue to me than hi-dpi and multi-client ASIO drivers.

I don't even know what a "TB interface" is, hence no comment. Although it occurs to me now that you mean Thunderbolt, not Terabyte, in which case all I can say is that you are typical of Mac users, so easily fooled by marketing hype. Why is it you think you need a Thunderbolt interface when most of us get by just fine with USB 1.2? Even my Overhub's aggregation of five separate USB audio streams isn't enough to fill out the bandwidth of USB 2.

But tools like iLok install themselves as an additional layer deep into the OS where it‘s nearly impossible to track all the details. So I consider them as „malware“ - by no means better than a virus.

That is the stupidest thing I have read this week. Does iLok replicate itself? No, it doesn't, so it's not a virus in any way, shape or form. It provides security for users and vendors alike.

Or even worse, those developers that won't allow moving the license from one computer to another because they don't trust their customers.

Like who? I've never had the tiniest problem. A couple of times I've emailed a company when I've run out of activations for one of the graphics applications I use and they have been more than happy to reset them for me.

It seems to me like you are the stupid one. Thunderbolt has way lower latency than USB audio interfaces. Even if that weren't the case I paid $$$ money for my audio interface I would have to take that into consideration if moving to another platform. Its not about audio streams or bandwidth it's about latency and as far as I'm aware RME is the only manufacturer with really great performing low latency USB drivers, the rest are mediocre at best. Thunderbolt is basically PCIe over a cable (that's an oversimplification but it makes my point). It's not marketing there are actual numbers to back that up.

If you can't hold a conversation like an adult and get off of you stupid biased bullshit don't respond to me, I only like to interact with people who are intelligent and you are not that.

[digitalboytn]

If you can't hold a conversation like an adult and get off of you stupid biased bullshit don't respond to me, I only like to interact with people who are intelligent and you are not that.

Calm down girls

[wuworld]

Great that you have the time and inclination to work on those issues but I don't.

Are you stupid? I said that I have NO issues, that everything just works. I only included Orion in the interests of full disclosure but its development ended years ago, so it tends to be cranky with newer hardware and software. But at least I can still open it, something you couldn't say about most Mac software that's more than a few years old.

You also conveniently skipped the part about my TB interface which is far more important of an issue to me than hi-dpi and multi-client ASIO drivers.

I don't even know what a "TB interface" is, hence no comment. Although it occurs to me now that you mean Thunderbolt, not Terabyte, in which case all I can say is that you are typical of Mac users, so easily fooled by marketing hype. Why is it you think you need a Thunderbolt interface when most of us get by just fine with USB 1.2? Even my Overhub's aggregation of five separate USB audio streams isn't enough to fill out the bandwidth of USB 2.

But tools like iLok install themselves as an additional layer deep into the OS where it‘s nearly impossible to track all the details. So I consider them as „malware“ - by no means better than a virus.

That is the stupidest thing I have read this week. Does iLok replicate itself? No, it doesn't, so it's not a virus in any way, shape or form. It provides security for users and vendors alike.

Or even worse, those developers that won't allow moving the license from one computer to another because they don't trust their customers.

Like who? I've never had the tiniest problem. A couple of times I've emailed a company when I've run out of activations for one of the graphics applications I use and they have been more than happy to reset them for me.

Why are you so mad all the time? This is the issue that I see with old musicians like yourself who resent today's music, and can't adapt.

[jancivil]

How rich with irony, a person who writes "Why is it you think you need a Thunderbolt interface when most of us get by just fine with USB 1.2?" thinking he's the most rational person (if not the only non-idiot) who ever graced the pages of these fora.

The first problem that might, or should occur to one is your basic ignorance fallacy (question whether or not you're sure of your position? I guess not. Dunning-Kruger Rules OK), compounding argument by anecdote. One doesn't know why the other perceives a need only because he doesn't, and lacking the interest doesn't know what may be out there which may mean better performance availed specifically by this tech. USB 3.2. I specifically chose a TB3 interface which contains a technological breakthrough in drivers. Direct Memory Address in a series known as the Quantum series by Presonus.
Yes, I based the decision in some marketing copy: Thunderbolt audio devices utilize bus master Direct Memory Access (DMA) to transfer audio data directly to and from the main memory without using CPU processing and the overhead that would come with it. The DMA engine implemented in the hardware transfers digital audio data directly between the ADC/DAC and the computer memory one sample at a time. was the simplified version

Proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and I have what I heretofore considered impossibly low latency given that it's Cubase under Core Audio. I keep adding total CPU hogs, the heavier hitters (long torturously-enveloped Absynth, multiple MIR Pro instances, convolutions, etc), to my projects and have yet to need the latency increased (lowered it since beginning). 5.833ms round trip for a project I'll have had to render a number of things to even have up in real time (and then with major breakage due to the Absynth builds) on a similarly specced machine and no such interface. A literally stunning difference.

I have no doubt that they are telling a true story with that bit of copy, so whether or not me buying it seems like a gullible Mac user to someone (with that particular crass disposition), it panned out beyond my highest expectation. This advancement doesn't happen outside of this generation of this bus type. These are facts.

[tooneba]

How can user tell getting good latency from interface is originated from TB and not good driver & dedicated interface CPU?

[BONES]

I have experience from at least two or three developers not allowing moving a license from one computer to another. One of them are Anthropics.

Right, very popular, those guys. They don't even show up on a search here. Or are they the guys who do the AI powered photo editing things? (I had to search to find that, too.)

Does that mean that you don't trust any of your fellow humans when you lock your front door or your car?

Interestingly, it is against the law to leave your car unlocked where I live. Ridiculous, but true.

Thunderbolt has way lower latency than USB audio interfaces.

If latency was an issue with USB, you might have a point but it isn't, so you don't. Do you realise that most hardware synths have latency of up to 20ms and more? Scot Solida did a huge test, many years ago, and IIRC, the average latency was something like 19ms. So if your DAW's latency isn't around the same, then any hardware synths you use will likely be out of time. Of course, you won't notice that because, as I said, latency isn't an issue, despite what Apple or MOTU or whoever took your money would like you to believe.

It's not marketing there are actual numbers to back that up.

Of course it's marketing, numbers are one of their key weapons and the more irrelevant they are, the easier it is to make a product seem better than the competition.

If you can't hold a conversation like an adult and get off of you stupid biased bullshit don't respond to me, I only like to interact with people who are intelligent and you are not that.

If I have a bias, it is born of 20+ years of using both PC and Mac in roughly equal amounts and being aware of what's important to my craft and what isn't. That's kind of how adults think. Adults also use the quoting system here at KVR a lot better than you do.

Why are you so mad all the time? This is the issue that I see with old musicians like yourself who resent today's music, and can't adapt.

Ha! I'm not "mad all the time", just confident in my views because I have learned what I know through direct experience, not from watching losers on YouTube who know nothing. And what, exactly, is "today's music" of which I am apparently so resentful? Because I gotta tell ya, I dislike around 99% of all music, from any era, but I still manage to find plenty of brand new music in 2020 that excites me as much as great music did in 1979 or any other year you care to mention since then. Some of it is even being made by kids in their 20s. Who'd a thunk it?

One doesn't know why the other perceives a need only because he doesn't

Absolute rubbish. I'm sure it suits your fragile fantasy view of the world to believe that people who don't agree with you are somehow using flawed thought processes but that's not how the world works. To give you an example, I don't feel the need to drive a V8 powered car but I sure as hell can see the attraction, just as I understand why many people choose to buy an SUV, when I would rather walk than own one.

lacking the interest doesn't know what may be out there which may mean better performance availed specifically by this tech.

Not a lack of interest, a lack of necessity. You may not be able to modofy your decades old behaviour of having to have the latest cutting edge tech but I realised many years ago that the tech we had even then was more than sufficient for my needs, so I changed my behaviour accordingly and allocated other priorities.

USB 3.2. I specifically chose a TB3 interface which contains a technological breakthrough in drivers. Direct Memory Address in a series known as the Quantum series by Presonus...
... Proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and I have what I heretofore considered impossibly low latency given that it's Cubase under Core Audio.

And the advantage of "impossibly low latency" is what, exactly? Because I've had acceptably low latency in my audio set-up since about 2002, when I bought my first USB I/O device. Today I could run my system with much, much lower latency than I do because 512 samples is plenty fast enough to allow my bandmate to trigger drums on my laptop from his OctaPad live on stage. I can run quite comfortably at 128 samples, even 64, there just isn't any reason to do so.

A literally stunning difference.

And quite pointless.

I have no doubt that they are telling a true story with that bit of copy, so whether or not me buying it seems like a gullible Mac user to someone (with that particular crass disposition), it panned out beyond my highest expectation. This advancement doesn't happen outside of this generation of this bus type. These are facts.

Of course they're facts, they just aren't relevant facts. Don't feel bad about it, though, I've done the same thing many times. e.g. I convinced myself that I absolutely needed to spend $129 on an Overhub but I didn't, everything works just as well with a $15 hub from the supermarket. All the tech specs and everything seemed perfectly valid, it just turned out that it didn't matter. Of course, having spent the money I use the Overhub at home but I won't bother with it live.

[SneakyBeats]

Why did you leave Studio One?

I tried, but never learned it really.. Everything is just too messed up for my brain. Same effect than with Cakewalk

[Lazarus451]

I left because I wanted to learn Ableton Live. And getting back to making music was easier with Live: tons of tutorials, more familiar gui etc. I liked some things in Studio One better though. Drag and drop was nice.

Live suite has (in my use) better stock plugins, or the way it implements them.

[jamcat]

USB 3.2. I specifically chose a TB3 interface which contains a technological breakthrough in drivers. Direct Memory Address in a series known as the Quantum series by Presonus...
... Proof of the pudding is in the tasting, and I have what I heretofore considered impossibly low latency given that it's Cubase under Core Audio.

And the advantage of "impossibly low latency" is what, exactly? Because I've had acceptably low latency in my audio set-up since about 2002, when I bought my first USB I/O device. Today I could run my system with much, much lower latency than I do because 512 samples is plenty fast enough to allow my bandmate to trigger drums on my laptop from his OctaPad live on stage. I can run quite comfortably at 128 samples, even 64, there just isn't any reason to do so.

Real drums don't have any latency at all, except for the speed of sound. Same for a real guitar amp or a piano. Having the lowest latency you can get is never irrelevant to a live performance, because it affects how you play.

[BONES]

My point is that it doesn't. If my bandmate can play drums and it all has to run into a computer, be processed and then spat out again, then whatever latency there is doesn't matter. And that point for him/us is a 512 sample buffer, which leads to around 18ms of round-trip latency.

I'm glad you mentioned the speed of sound. At sea level it is around 344m/s. That means in 20ms sound travels about 6.9m. Now think about a symphony orchestra, they are spread over a distance greater than that on stage, yet they have no problem playing in perfect time with everyone else. So if they can live and perform with more than 20ms of latency, why do we need to be so obsessive about it?

[chk071]

Does that mean that you don't trust any of your fellow humans when you lock your front door or your car?

Interestingly, it is against the law to leave your car unlocked where I live. Ridiculous, but true.

I don't think it's against the law here, but, the insurance won't pay if you do and someone steals from it, or steals the car. So, highly recommended in any case.

[nIGhT-SoN]

What if your car had a lock that would open the door only to your face? Let's assume sometimes it doesn't recognizes your face because it's dark, because you're wearing a mask, because it's foggy outside etc. Would that be fun? Especially when you are in a hurry. I think that explains iLok and other similar protections.

Believe me, I have iLok plugins and I hate that protection from my guts. It so happens to get a windows update that changes your computer id/name and guess what, you have to contact every vendor to release the plugins activation from "previous" computer. I would rather spend that few hours making music or watching a tv show than sending e-mails and trying to explain what happened. Of course, I could use the physical dongle and never have that problem, but you can face other problems, like losing the dongle, breaking it, being stolen, not to mention I would have to pay for it when I could spend that money on a different plugin.

So the analogy with the car lock, that's just crap comparison. There are solutions for protecting software without making your paying customers have a nightmare because of it. Studio One has such a nice protection and there are lots of companies that keep this in mind. A company should never punish their paying customers!

[chk071]

What if your car had a lock that would open the door only to your face? Let's assume sometimes it doesn't recognizes your face because it's dark, because you're wearing a mask, because it's foggy outside etc. Would that be fun? Especially when you are in a hurry. I think that explains iLok and other similar protections.

I can't see how this possibly relates to iLok.

Believe me, I have iLok plugins and I hate that protection from my guts. It so happens to get a windows update that changes your computer id/name

Never happened to me.

So the analogy with the car lock, that's just crap comparison. There are solutions for protecting software without making your paying customers have a night mare because of it. Studio One has such a nice protection and there are lots of companies that keep this in mind. A company should never punish the their paying customers!

They don't. Even if this argument gets repeated for the gazllionth time. A copy protection is there to protect your software from being pirated, nothing more nothing less.

A car lock is not there to hassle the owner by always wearing a key, and having to lock and unlock it every time he wants to enter or leave. It's to prevent a very low percentage of malicious people to steal the car, or its contents.

In the end, it's all beneficial for the user, because he doesn't have to pay double for the software to make the developer/publisher make up for the loss of income due to his software being pirated.

[nIGhT-SoN]

It is related to iLok because there are more steps involved. For me it happened twice with windows update. It could also happen if you reinstall your OS and forget to deactivate every plugin or if your drive fails to boot, there are n possibilities.

Using hard to crack protection, that in the end makes life harder for the paying customer, it's not a good reason for me. There are developers that don't do this, let me give you an example of a small developer that comes to mind, Xfer. Why didn't he used iLok, Codemeter or anything like that? That would've helped secure more money, from what you say.

Believe me, you're still paying more for the software with iLok. First of all, as the developer, you have to pay for the protection code, their cloud services and let's not forget there are fewer customers since a part of them don't like that invasive protection. So developer has to put a higher price to compensate that. Also, what makes you think that all those pirates can afford that software? Let's not assume that if your software can't be cracked, those that would've used it cracked, would buy it instead. If any developers calculates their potential income like that, that's really funny.

If you don't want to be pirated, protection is not the best solution, it's a solution. Offer other ways to buy your software. For example rent-to-own. That's the best anti-piracy policy, from my point of view and I'm sure there can be other ways to convince people buying your software is a good thing for them too.

LE. Talking about the amount of sales. Why is Waves doing so many discounts? Also Plugin Alliance. Because they arrived to the conclusion that charging less, more people can afford your software and would buy it. For example, having a compressor for $99, maybe from 50 people only 5 are able to buy it, but for $29, maybe 40 people can afford it.