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nIGhT-SoN wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:30 amWhat if your car had a lock that would open the door only to your face? Let's assume sometimes it doesn't recognizes your face because it's dark, because you're wearing a mask, because it's foggy outside etc. Would that be fun? Especially when you are in a hurry. I think that explains iLok and other similar protections.
No, it doesn't, because iLok works whether it is dark or bright, rainy or windy, hot or cold. It's more like a fingerprint reader - if you use it properly, it always works.
Believe me, I have iLok plugins and I hate that protection from my guts. It so happens to get a windows update that changes your computer id/name and guess what, you have to contact every vendor to release the plugins activation from "previous" computer.
I've probably updated Windows hundreds of times over the years and it has never once changed the name/ID of any computer of mine. You may as well ask what I'd do if aliens beamed down and took my laptop because I think that is about as likely.
apoclypse wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:20 pmThe top performing audio interfaces are almost all TB devices. That's facts.
Yes but, for the third time now, they are IRRELEVANT FACTS. The sky is blue is also a fact and is equally relevant to this discussion. I've asked repeatedly why you latency matters, I've demonstrated why it isn't and you still refuse to even try to understand.
Your argument is that synths have latency so it shouldn't matter? Okay so If your synth has 20ms of latency, your interface as 10ms of latency, that's 30ms of latency you've added to the signal chain and at 30ms that's more than audible to the human ear.
Why would I run a hardware synth through my interface? It goes the other way around - on stage I use either my Ultranova or Analog Keys as the audio interface, so getting close to the same latency means they will be more closely in time.
Then you take into account that synths are not the only thing one tracks into a DAW.
I don't record my vocals directly into a project, I usually record them into a separate scratch project in Audition. Either way, though, latency doesn't matter, beyond maybe having to clip the first 10ms or so from the audio track when it's recorded. But compared to all the other editing I have to do to get the performance right, it wouldn't be worth spending even $1 to save me having to do that.
Ofcourse better numbers sell more products. I don't see your point. It's like Intel or AMD selling you a PC with a faster CPU or higher ram speed. Does that negate that fact that it's in fact faster?
Because if my current machine is fast enough, why would I waste money on a newer, faster one? Again, it's thinking from 20 years ago, when having the latest and fastest really did matter. That is not really the case today, so you modify your behaviour accordingly. In practical terms, if I rarely see the CPU meter on my current laptop go over 50%, why would I even think about buying a more powerful machine? It's the same with latency - if we can get up on stage and perform with 18ms round-trip latency, from any of half-a-dozen different interfaces, why would I/we even think about spending money or making other restrictive choices just to lower the latency further? And if we can do it, there is no reason anyone else can't, too, because there is nothing at all special about what we do or how we do it.
Well my 25+ experience says that in general there are less issues to deal with on Macs.
If that's true, I can only assume you never really use them for anything too taxing. And to be clear, audio/music taxes my system far less than my graphics work. To back up my point, when we move offices at the end of the year and get rid of all our Macs, they are making three IT/engineering positions redundant, which is a reasonable indication of how much more work it takes to keep them running than the PCs we'll all be using from next year.
Mature and reasoned adults don't call other people stupid without knowing their level of experience or background.
Experience and background is irrelevant - if you say something stupid I will call you on it. Just ask any of my colleagues or bosses at work.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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apoclypse wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:43 pmThat's known already. The point is that when recording adding significant latency to the users performance will affect them. If a guitarist is tracking to a DAW and they are used to 6ms of latency, adding 10ms of latency will be disruptive to them.
You can't know that, it is an assumption on your part. I'd suggest it wouldn't be an issue, in that a guitarist can walk from one side of a large stage, near his stack, to the other, where latency might be in the order of 20ms greater, without it affecting his playing. It's just onto worth obsessing over, it's largely a non-issue and has been for many years now.
I can track my guitar to an amp emulation on my DAW and it's not disruptive or if I have a synth I can track to the reverb or effect in my DAW and it's less disruptive to me. Again that may not be valuable to some, but to me that is invaluable.
Well of course, we all do and we don't need to spend a fortune or make decisions that restrict our options in other areas to do so.
pdxindy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:39 pmIn the last few group working situations I've been in, the ratio of Macs has been about 60% to 40%. The PC's consistently required more attention on the computer itself over a period of time. That has continued to be my experience for over 20+ years. For me, Macs have always just worked and let me focus on my interests, not the machine itself.
That is the exact opposite of my experience at several major broadcast networks and a few high profile post production houses. I imagine if you specifically set your networks up for Mac they might be fine but on our networks they are a right royal PITA, from having to manually reconnect to all our servers after every restart to trying to get Adobe CC to run reliably.

To be fair, it's improved considerably over time. When I first started by current job, around 6 years ago, I experienced daily crashes with After Effects, sometimes Photoshop as well, and more often than not it took down the whole system. Through all of last year, though, I don't think the system went down even once and AE was only crashing once or twice a month. Of course, we are still miles behind the current OS, we haven't even thought about trying Catalina. In contrast, of course, I have been on three different PC workstations over the past year (trialing different systems prior to the major purchase), all running the latest version of Windows 10, and I am yet to experience any crashes at all.
dellboy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:34 pmOn my PC, if I have a DAW open I and want to watch youtube or listen to an audio file I have to close the DAW to free up the audio.
What set-up do you have? I get that if I let Orion run on my Steinberg device's drivers but if I run it on ASIO4all I can have anything else I like playing at the same time. Of late, I typically have Studio One, Orion or Cubase, Ocen Audio or Audition, maybe Zune and my browser all open at once and I can hear sound out of any/all of them without doing anything.
gentleclockdivider wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:51 pmLOL , not it 's not 20 ms , and it was just one test done by one guy ..that is hardly any evidence
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there were more than two replies to the original thread and, possibly, Scot went and did more tests later on or other people contributed their own findings. I think that thread has been carefully edited by the owners of this website (do they still own this place?) to show their product in the best light.
you're verry trustworthy
After 16 years I'm surprised I even remembered who did the test, which is why I preceded my statement with "IIRC".
you can't accept certain people know a bit more then you do ( imho a lot more )
Of course I can. I certainly trust that Scot did an honest, unbiased job and if anyone else around here is able to demonstrate they have a clue, then of course I respect their opinions, too. But if you just blurt out the first bullshit thing you can remember from watching too much YouTube and you don't even have enough confidence in your skills to post music for us to listen to, or if that music is rubbish, then of course you don't know what you're talking about and you should have enough brains to realise that without me having to point it out.
pdxindy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:42 pmI have zero interest to learn how to build, engineer and fix them. I don't needs lots of custom possibilities or have tons of options for stuff I don't care about. I'm fine with the more limited choices with Apple stuff. For the most part Apple makes effective choices on my behalf. I'm happy to be an idiot user.

I just want to buy the thing, install what I need and do work with the minimum amount of attention needed for the tool. For that Macs have worked well for me.
You are Apple's perfect customer, an unquestioning drone. The experience you describe is available from any number of vendors, many of whom won't empty your wallet to provide it to you. e.g. I didn't have to pay for the next day, on site warranty I got from Dell, it was included in the absurdly low price I paid for my laptop. Better still, I get the best of both worlds because I was able to quadruple the RAM and swap the secondary drive, a spinning HDD, with a high-speed SSD for a fraction of the price of specifying it with those options, without voiding the warranty.

it always does my head in that Apple users seem to view choice as a bad thing, as though they don't trust themselves to make their own decisions.
NOVAkILL : Legion GO, AMD Z1x, 16GB RAM, Win11 | Audient EVO 8 | Lumi Keys | Studio Pro 8
Korg Odyssey, bx-oberhausen, Proxima, PolyMax, GR8, JP6K, Union, Atomika,
Invader 2, Flow Motion, Olga, TRK 01, Thorn, Spire, VG Iron

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Stop your ‘ watched to much you tube ‘ excuses.
You’re not the only old sock around here , that being said it , there is lot’s of great info to be found on u-tube as long as the source is reliable -verifiable and their claims can be backed up , which is something you rarely do .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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pdxindy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:42 pm I just want to buy the thing, install what I need and do work with the minimum amount of attention needed for the tool. For that Macs have worked well for me.
What I never understood: Why do some people think this would be any different on windows pc???

Please don´t tell me that otherwise you don´t get the software running properly... I read different forums and if someone has trouble it´s 95% a mac user...

The times where was stated that windows user have to first make their machines work and macs run flawless out of the box are gone since nearly 20 years.

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Trancit wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:28 am The times where was stated that windows user have to first make their machines work and macs run flawless out of the box are gone since nearly 20 years.
yeah I just dont get this stuff at all - it has been a very very long time since Windows needed
massaging to work with video or audio or anything much at all.
But people still think they need to buy antivirus software or tweak the machine and play with the registry for audio, yet none of that is necessary at all

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Trancit wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:28 amPlease don´t tell me that otherwise you don´t get the software running properly... I read different forums and if someone has trouble it´s 95% a mac user...
...and it's not because OSX is more buggy. It's because when something eventually breaks, they - in majority - have no first clue what to do about it. The on/off button is as far as they ever gotten.

And BTW I'm not saying it's a bad thing necessarily. I'm the same with my car - I know where fuel and wipers fluid go and just have to pay attention to not mix them up :wink:
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Trancit wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:28 am
pdxindy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:42 pm I just want to buy the thing, install what I need and do work with the minimum amount of attention needed for the tool. For that Macs have worked well for me.
What I never understood: Why do some people think this would be any different on windows pc???

Please don´t tell me that otherwise you don´t get the software running properly... I read different forums and if someone has trouble it´s 95% a mac user...
Did you think differently? Breaking software compatibility is good thing. Good is bad. Bad is good. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. If they destroyed something someone will build different thing for them. :ud:

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Trancit wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:28 am
pdxindy wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:42 pm I just want to buy the thing, install what I need and do work with the minimum amount of attention needed for the tool. For that Macs have worked well for me.
What I never understood: Why do some people think this would be any different on windows pc???
Because most Mac people didn't try Windows since Windows 98. And even then it was easy.

Compared to that, I swear every time I sit down in front of my mom's Mac. Some things there are so ridiculously stupidly made that I wonder if the people who claim Mac's are so much easier and better live on the same planet as I.

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chk071 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:07 pm I wonder if the people who claim Mac's are so much easier and better live on the same planet as I.
No. We live on an easier and better planet. 8)
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BONES wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:05 amit always does my head in that Apple users seem to view choice as a bad thing, as though they don't trust themselves to make their own decisions.
You are presenting it a bit wrong. It is not that Apple users (at least this one) view choice as a bad thing. Some people don't want to spend their time making choices and decisions about every little unimportant thing.

I'm just fine to be an unquestioning drone... in some things which don't matter to me.

Computers is one of those things for me. I don't need 200 different choices. I also wouldn't need a store that had 200 different hammers. Give me one store with a few choices of decent tools and I can quickly get what I need for the task that interests me. That is what Apple does. Works for some people... obviously doesn't for others. It is such an insignificant thing really. Yet your identity seems caught up in defining itself by your consumer choices. Talk about being an unquestioning drone!

I live in a rural area and my primary house is off grid. I have a solar system. I can build and install the entire thing myself. I know how to fix my well pump if it breaks. I can repair my irrigation system. I have the skills to build my own house. I used to fix the tractors on my farm. I also have the intelligence to know which things matter to me and which things don't. The brand name of the tools I use just doesn't matter to me.

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pdxindy wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:43 pm . I have a solar system. .
:o
i thought i was doing ok with a few planets, 7 moons and a couple hundred asteroids!
:ud:

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Michael L wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:36 pm
chk071 wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:07 pm I wonder if the people who claim Mac's are so much easier and better live on the same planet as I.
No. We live on an easier and better planet. 8)
You may think you are. ;)

Do you also use Windows on a regular base?

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vurt wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:51 pm
pdxindy wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:43 pm . I have a solar system. .
:o
i thought i was doing ok with a few planets, 7 moons and a couple hundred asteroids!
Get with the program dude... enough is never enough! :lol:

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Since 90s never had problems with Macs. Never re formatted, never installed antivirus software, the computer never slowed down after a period of time, never had SCSI conflicts. I don't care if Windows machines are better or cheaper or faster. Why would I spend hours, days to see which MB or Graphic Card is better, what works good/bad with what instead of grabbing a Mac and starting to do music straight away?

So if I buy a Prophet5 or Moog One instead of building a Euro Rack system, does that mean I do not trust my choices and accept my fate and buy a pre made stupid synth ?
I trust my choices and I choose Mac. And never regretted once.

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andypryce wrote: Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:04 pm Since 90s never had problems with Macs. Never re formatted, never installed antivirus software, the computer never slowed down after a period of time, never had SCSI conflicts. I don't care if Windows machines are better or cheaper or faster. Why would I spend hours, days to see which MB or Graphic Card is better, what works good/bad with what instead of grabbing a Mac and starting to do music straight away?

So if I buy a Prophet5 or Moog One instead of building a Euro Rack system, does that mean I do not trust my choices and accept my fate and buy a pre made stupid synth ?
I trust my choices and I choose Mac. And never regretted once.

I build my own PCs. I have a 5960x X99 based system under my desk right now that I've built myself. However when it comes to making music I don't want/need to sit there troubleshooting issues or trying to figure out what ASIO driver is multi-client etc. I just want to open my machine and make music. If I'm developing games (which is what the PC is for) of course I want the versatility and power of a PC. In general for audio Macs are just plug and play for me.
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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