Those kinds of unwritten "audio community rules" are almost always complete nonsense.. like the classic "high pass filter everything" or "never EQ more than 3dB or you should re-record the instrument" etc. An audio professional never adheres to any rules but instead does everything possible to get the best result.. if that means using 500 plugins whereof 50 are reverbs and no highpass filters ever used and +12dB EQ on the master, then so be it.andymcbain wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:32 pmThis seems to go against all the unwritten rules about reverb, which is what makes it so compellingbmanic wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:37 am So in conclusion:
Don't be afraid to run tons of reverb plugins in a single project. Automate them! I have everything from 10 to 30 reverb plugins per project, depending on how large the project is. I don't remember when I've had less than 10, even in a simple project. The majority of them are of course on individual tracks and at very low volume but they add subtle glue and complexity to sounds.
I listen in context of the overall mix. I pretty much automatically add some kind of reverb on all of the dry tracks, going by my gut reaction at first, trying to make stuff denser and less harsh (reverbs help in controlling transient harshness by blurring/blending the instrument into a space). Once I have most of my tracks with a basic reverb, then I start tweaking them one by one. Some tracks get short ambient rooms, some get longer delays. It all depends on how much "blurring" the track needs and where it is meant to sit within the mix.andymcbain wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:32 pm Are you referring to 10-30 entirely different "spaces" or variations on a few pre-defined spaces (e.g. a long hall, a short plate, an ambient room etc) - across many instances? Or just whatever seems to sound good for the track?
Example: Does the bottom snare mic sound too fizzy and clicky but you'd rather not lower it in volume too much or use tons of EQ to get under control as you actually like the overall tone of it? Try adding a short, dense and blurry reverb to it and force the dry signal into this reverb so that it no longer pokes through the mix.
Example2: Is the swirling synth pad too wide in stereo but you'd rather not diminish it's width through M/S EQing or narrowing in general? You'd like to keep it as it is but would like some more swirl and padness in the center? Simple, insert a quite long modulated mono reverb that sits dead center. Make sure it has quite a long predelay so that the reverb foundation at the center doesn't dominate the sides while still being able to bring it up in level.
Example3: Do the background vocals need to sit a bit further back during the verse, to make them contrast against the dry in-your-face background vocals in the bridge or chorus? Insert individual short ambience reverb plugins on each background vocal so that you get full control of the amount of modulation of the reverb you can get away with, depending on the pitch of the vocal (for instance root notes in the overall background vocal chord need to be "more in tune" than harmonics).
Example4: Insert a "dummy reverb" that never actually is wet on it's own.. rather send a signal through the reverb and then further into a delay. This creates a hybrid delay/reverb thing that pulsates to the beat (and maybe goes ping pong with the delay). This can create a huge soup of background "glue".
Audio example for point 4:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpos ... tcount=175
In the first example in that post I'm actually sending various amounts of the different synths into a long modulated synthetic hall like reverb (done in Ariesverb) which is then further sent into the delay. The reverb itself is never wet at all.. rather it has it's fader set to -inf dB in the mixer.
In the second audio example this whole reverb into delay thing is missing.. but so is the Wavesfactory Cat in general.. so it's a bit hard to differentiate how large a role the reverb actually plays.
Remember that very few reverbs actually need to be dense and "high quality". Even if a reverb is super grainy and "nasty" on it's own, it can be exceptional at creating space and a feeling of position within a mix. I also often substitute reverbs with short modulated delays. The idea is still the same, to create a specific space and placement for the instrument and also to "blur" any excessive transients.andymcbain wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:32 pm Something I started doing recently was leaving a reverb's pre-delay at zero and then making multiple "pre-delay busses" with different delay and EQ settings. That seemed to help a little when creating a sense of depth. But as CPU power goes up and up the idea of using a ton of different reverbs gets all the more intriguing.
You can test positioning yourself very easily. Simply rub your thumb and middle finger really close to your ear. Listen carefully to the details of the sound. Now move it further away from the ear and listen to what is happening. The first things you'll notice is that low frequencies go away (proximity effect diminishes) and you loose high frequencies. However, what many don't realize is that the high frequency loss is actually also a sort of illusion. You lose details.. the sound gets more "blurred". This is what reverbs can help achieve.
There are some caveats with having a ton of reverbs going too.. you'll need to be careful with phase. I personally very much like reverbs that have an inherent uncanny ability to just "melt" with the original signal source. Instead of boosting some frequencies and becoming bright and boomy, they instead seem to phase cancel ringing frequencies so that the overall image becomes more stable. This is the hallmark of a quality reverb algorithm in my opinion. To retain this phase cancelling "melting" trait of a reverb, it is extremely important that you use a LINEAR PHASE EQ if you want to equalize the reverb return. If you use an ordinary minimum phase EQ, you may be changing the intricate phase relationship of the reverb vs the original dry track in a way that destroys the reverbs ability to "melt" with the source.
This kind of reverb that melts with the source is not always ideal though. For a typical hard hitting snare "smack" you'll need a reverb that doesn't do this.. but for stuff you do not want to poke out in the mix, these kinds of "melting into the sound" reverbs are awesome.
All the high-end lexicon and lexicon like reverbs have this trait in common. Also the latest Supermassive from Valhalla seems to have this trait in most of it's algorithms when diffusing the delay lines and using it as a reverb. However, Valhalla previous reverbs, room and VVV do not have these traits.
Anyhow, I could write a whole essay on this as I see reverb as a very important effect in any mix. It's one of the areas where I highly recommend people experiment and go far beyond their initial comfort zone. Remember that if it sounds like "too much reverb!" you have several choices to address this. First the amount of reverb you put out into the mix, aka the volume/mix of the reverb. Another is to shorten the decay time or use an EQ to dampen the frequency range our ear is most sensitive to. Less is usually more though, especially if you run a ton of reverb plugins in a mix. A little goes a long way.
I don't make a ton myself, but I do mix quite a bit. But hey, I fully admitted to being an addict in my post.
