Future of Logic Pro and Cubase on Mac

[tooneba]

jonljacobi has a point. Non-general purpose CPU is having high affinity for restricted/curated (whatever term) install gateway.

[pdxindy]

You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise, end of. Nothing more to say, you're just dead wrong about this. I live on an arterial and I still can't stand the noise of the laptop here, the desktop never makes noise really.

I don't think so. In theory musician will care about environmental noise but considering the reality that people buy laptop rather than desktop, buy all-in-one computer rather than separated one, buy thinner laptop rather than thick one. This is the opposite move when you want to reduce the fan noise. But apple have been doing this move and musicians have been buying their products. So your argument is just based on your desk theory. Most musicians don't care fan noise when they choose their computer.

Having owned at least five different Apple laptops, you're wrong. Only this last one fans up to annoying levels. You're not wrong that choices the industry led by Apple have made noise an issue. Not changing the case at all for about ten years with the resulting chips burning hotter and needing cooling etc. All real. The noise was never a problem before, but Intels lack of ability in getting to 4nm coupled with Apples obsession with thin has created this situation since 4+ cores have become standard.

So this move to 7nm chips and easily estimated lower fan noise is a good thing.

It's not me telling the laptop is noisier than desktop, all-in-one is noisier than separate one or thinner laptop is noisier than thicker one. It's science. So you can't prove anything just by saying "You are wrong". And musicians have been buying apple products. And this is true. Apple's product line is following this opposite trend. It is also true. So your bold claim "You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise" is false. That is what I'm pointing.

Bones may be the only person machinesworking has ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise. You have no idea if that is a true statement or not. I'll take them at their word.

I know a few musicians who don't care about computer fan noise. Generally hardware people with gear that is noisier than the computer anyway or who have a relatively noisy studio. More of them who do care and who would rather have less fan noise or none at all. Fan noise matters to me. I returned my Moog One cause of the fan noise... it drove me nuts. My studio is super quiet. Ambient sound level is like 26db.

[pdxindy]

The advantage for the developer to port is that it brings them closer to a massive iOS market. That may well offset the extra developer time to go Apple Silicon native.

From an enduser perspective, having an Apple Silicon Mac means I can use my iOS apps on it. So excellent apps like Drambo, Borderlands, etc. will now be available to Mac users. I'm pleased about that aspect.

Hmm, if this happens I can see the bottom falling out of the AU plugin market because people won't want to pay more than $5 or $10 or the Euro equivalent for an iOS app...for instance ToneBoosters Reverb 4 VST/AU is about $40 but the app is $8.99...AudioDamage FilterStation 2: $49 plugin vs. $4.99 app. Same with Auria PSP/FabFilter iOS in-app purchases vs. those brands' much higher AU/VST plugin prices. And there are no demos, developers have very little pricing flexibility and hand over way more $$ to App Store. If lower prices bring more users that's a higher support burden too.

Being able to use an iOS app on my Mac doesn't mean it will work as a hosted plugin in ones Mac DAW. Borderlands is standalone only, but Drambo is both standalone and iOS AU, but I don't expect it would work as a DAW plugin on my Mac... just standalone.

The bottom wont fall out of the plugin market. iOS apps are cheap because there is usually no manual, little/no expectation of support, no demos, no need for multiple plugin formats. We get a lot of added benefit for the extra cost of VST plugins. That will remain and the whole thing will work out.

[jancivil]

You may count me as one who doesn't care about fan noise. I'm under cans to hear anything, I don't record anything live, I tend to have the fan on in the room...
I actually introduce noise into pretty much every piece as I have moments of "silence" in the thing, and the absence of noise bugs me as though unnatural. So with playback stopped I'm hearing less noise from the fan in the computer than I was in the track typically (until I take the cans off, and they're going back on presently). So this little fan can't be all that noisy anyway. I tend to doubt my MacPro was significantly quieter than this 16,1 MBP. Using it for light loads such as right now (without Cubase and VEP loaded), it's a quiet machine. With heavy loads it's a bit of a space heater after a while.

So, not much of a selling point for me to perceive a need for an ARM thingy real soon.

[pdxindy]

You may count me as one who doesn't care about fan noise. I'm under cans to hear anything, I don't record anything live, I tend to have the fan on in the room...
I actually introduce noise into pretty much every piece as I have moments of "silence" in the thing, and the absence of noise bugs me as though unnatural. So with playback stopped I'm hearing less noise from the fan in the computer than I was in the track typically (until I take the cans off, and they're going back on presently). So this little fan can't be all that noisy anyway. I tend to doubt my MacPro was significantly quieter than this 16,1 MBP. Using it for light loads such as right now (without Cubase and VEP loaded), it's a quiet machine. With heavy loads it's a bit of a space heater after a while.

So, not much of a selling point for me to perceive a need for an ARM thingy real soon.

Yeah... that makes sense if you don't record anything live. I do. A flute, guitar, kalimba and voice. I had to record far enough away to not pick up the laptop fan noise and then start/stop is not so convenient. I also do a fair bit of ambient/field recording but for that I use my Zoom F6. Computer fan noise can be annoying for podcasts too.

I ended up getting a Mac Mini so it could live under the desk with a sound baffle. Now the fan noise is no issue. I'd love a laptop with fans that rarely had to come on.

[jancivil]

Probably noisy enough to where I would want a different setup to record live acoustically... the extra bit of noise a bit too messy, accumulatively so

[Tronam]

Promising benchmarks are continuing to leak. Apparently M1 *emulating* x86 has better single core performance than any other current Intel Mac, even the desktops. I'd guess the active cooled systems like the new MacBook Pro and Mac mini will be able to maintain that level of performance for longer, sustained periods of time.

[Passing Bye]

That's cool to hear.

[jonljacobi]

I also assume that eventually it will be virtually impossible to install anything that doesn't come from the Apple store. This would make piracy far more difficult, if not impossible.

They’ve been very clear about not restricting it in that way. The Mac is intentionally different from their other devices. Sure, some average consumers may use them like mouse driven iPads, but they’re also an open development platform intended to allow for tinkering, experimentation and making stuff. Coding and compiling, research, virtualization, multiple OS disk volumes, background tools, 2 steps away from root access in Unix command line, etc... Considering its small marketshare relative to iPhone/iPad, there’s no good reason for closing it off. This is why the Mac and iPad have been kept separate and will continue to be in the future.

Maybe. Relying on the promises of a corporation is not something I do. If and when it becomes to their advantage, I can guarantee you they’ll close it in the name of security or whatever. And the systems until now weren’t CPU compatible.

As I said, I believe they are aiming for a single ecosystem covering all devices and form factors. Basically eliminating the distinctions you are relying upon in your prediction.

You could be right, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. Everything I see points in the direction I mentioned. Timeline or success? Can’t say.

[pdxindy]

I also assume that eventually it will be virtually impossible to install anything that doesn't come from the Apple store. This would make piracy far more difficult, if not impossible.

They’ve been very clear about not restricting it in that way. The Mac is intentionally different from their other devices. Sure, some average consumers may use them like mouse driven iPads, but they’re also an open development platform intended to allow for tinkering, experimentation and making stuff. Coding and compiling, research, virtualization, multiple OS disk volumes, background tools, 2 steps away from root access in Unix command line, etc... Considering its small marketshare relative to iPhone/iPad, there’s no good reason for closing it off. This is why the Mac and iPad have been kept separate and will continue to be in the future.

Maybe. Relying on the promises of a corporation is not something I do. If and when it becomes to their advantage, I can guarantee you they’ll close it in the name of security or whatever. And the systems until now weren’t CPU compatible.

As I said, I believe they are aiming for a single ecosystem covering all devices and form factors. Basically eliminating the distinctions you are relying upon in your prediction.

You could be right, but I wouldn’t take it as gospel. Everything I see points in the direction I mentioned. Timeline or success? Can’t say.

If that eventually happens and it may or may not, it might work out well and have no meaningful impact on end-users. And anyway it is not likely to happen for years to come and to me is irrelevant to what ones decides to do today.

[revvy]

Non Apple users do so worry about what changes will mean for Apple users long into the future. I find it kinda touching. Bless.

[tooneba]

You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise, end of. Nothing more to say, you're just dead wrong about this. I live on an arterial and I still can't stand the noise of the laptop here, the desktop never makes noise really.

I don't think so. In theory musician will care about environmental noise but considering the reality that people buy laptop rather than desktop, buy all-in-one computer rather than separated one, buy thinner laptop rather than thick one. This is the opposite move when you want to reduce the fan noise. But apple have been doing this move and musicians have been buying their products. So your argument is just based on your desk theory. Most musicians don't care fan noise when they choose their computer.

Having owned at least five different Apple laptops, you're wrong. Only this last one fans up to annoying levels. You're not wrong that choices the industry led by Apple have made noise an issue. Not changing the case at all for about ten years with the resulting chips burning hotter and needing cooling etc. All real. The noise was never a problem before, but Intels lack of ability in getting to 4nm coupled with Apples obsession with thin has created this situation since 4+ cores have become standard.

So this move to 7nm chips and easily estimated lower fan noise is a good thing.

It's not me telling the laptop is noisier than desktop, all-in-one is noisier than separate one or thinner laptop is noisier than thicker one. It's science. So you can't prove anything just by saying "You are wrong". And musicians have been buying apple products. And this is true. Apple's product line is following this opposite trend. It is also true. So your bold claim "You're the only musician I've ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise" is false. That is what I'm pointing.

Bones may be the only person machinesworking has ever heard of that doesn't care about fan noise. You have no idea if that is a true statement or not. I'll take them at their word.

I know a few musicians who don't care about computer fan noise. Generally hardware people with gear that is noisier than the computer anyway or who have a relatively noisy studio. More of them who do care and who would rather have less fan noise or none at all. Fan noise matters to me. I returned my Moog One cause of the fan noise... it drove me nuts. My studio is super quiet. Ambient sound level is like 26db.

I can't speak on behalf of others, so do you.

[Tronam]

I also assume that eventually it will be virtually impossible to install anything that doesn't come from the Apple store. This would make piracy far more difficult, if not impossible.

They’ve been very clear about not restricting it in that way. The Mac is intentionally different from their other devices...

Maybe. Relying on the promises of a corporation is not something I do. If and when it becomes to their advantage, I can guarantee you they’ll close it in the name of security or whatever. And the systems until now weren’t CPU compatible.

As I said, I believe they are aiming for a single ecosystem covering all devices and form factors. Basically eliminating the distinctions you are relying upon in your prediction.

They’re different because they need to be. The Mac is Apple’s development platform. How does it fill that role if it’s a closed, sandboxed environment like on the iPad? All the software security features are present to protect average users, but they can be completely disabled. This is by intentional design.

[oxygenmask]

Not to beat a dead horse here, but in reference to the conversation related to Apple's margin.... Someone said that if you weren't high up in management you couldn't possibly know the margins. I am a store manager for a major retailer. If I want to know the margin on any product I carry, I type it into a computer. I would imagine every store manager at Apple stores around the world can also do this. Not a very big secret. In fact, not only would it be common knowledge to the grunt store managers, but also the assistant managers who would absolutely be bonusing off of attainment to budget particularly in margin. I would say that a good portion of the people working at every single Apple store are quite well informed about how much Apple makes on any given product. Why did so many people overthink this?

[machinesworking]

Non Apple users do so worry about what changes will mean for Apple users long into the future. I find it kinda touching. Bless.

Yes, they worry about how the new chips will work out, how much we pay for them, what plug ins we can use, whether the camera is 1080p or not, if it's "really" a better experience, whether developers will abandon MAC OS, etc. etc. They seem really worried that we might be using an inferior product, they really care.