Live 11 - Many bitter comments on their Facebook

[SLiC]

@Beta testers: Did you try the new Chorus/Ensemble and Phaser/Flanger effects in Live11? What is your opinion, how do they compare to 3rd party plugins?

They are certainly better than they were and they have quite a few useful options (especially the flanger/phaser when expanded, 2 LFO's out of phase sounds pretty good, the chorus is still pretty vanilla) but to be honest I cant get them to sound as good as the stuff I normally use (Valhalla Uber, Soundtoys and Eventide) but you wouldn't really expect that with a DAWS built in FX...they are more than good enough for adding to 'rack' instruments or mangling loops.

IMHO $50 on Valhalla Ubber Mod has you covered for pretty much every type of modulation effect at the highest level...https://valhalladsp.com/shop/delay/valhalla-uber-mod/

[davidka]

@Beta testers: Did you try the new Chorus/Ensemble and Phaser/Flanger effects in Live11? What is your opinion, how do they compare to 3rd party plugins?

They are certainly better than they were and they have quite a few useful options (especially the flanger/phaser when expanded, 2 LFO's out of phase sounds pretty good, the chorus is still pretty vanilla) but to be honest I cant get them to sound as good as the stuff I normally use (Valhalla Uber, Soundtoys and Eventide) but you wouldn't really expect that with a DAWS built in FX...they are more than good enough for adding to 'rack' instruments or mangling loops.

IMHO $50 on Valhalla Ubber Mod has you covered for pretty much every type of modulation effect at the highest level...<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">https://valhalladsp.com/shop/delay/valh ... -mod</span>/

Thanks SLiC, this was my conclusion from yesterdays' research, seems you confirmed this for me.

[d2dsf]

I've been using the new beta and I love it. There are some rough edges, but I love the way Ableton does comping and I really like the new scale mode. I bought the update 5 minutes after it was announced.

[Noumena]

You cannot map midi in bitwig, there is no table where you can input or select a midi device, all you can do is midi learn.If you use the seaboard and want to use the X / Y Pad, which is automaticly mapped in Ableton, it isn't mapped in bitwig.

So you have to change the midi channel for X/Y Pad in Roli Dashboard to 114 / 114 for mapping, because Midi Learn has problems with both parameters simultaniously. ALso you cannot safe your mapped instrument as a preset rack like in ableton.

Also the MPE enable button is very hidden, since a Bitwig 2 Update.

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping. It is so capable and flexible that it is confusing to learn—that's the flaw, but incredibly rewarding once you have it going.

The XY pad on the Seaboard is automatically mapped to an XY modulator on the active instrument as per the documentation -- this is more than equivalent to the implementation on Ableton... I find it to be more flexible.

I can't see how the position of the MPE button is problematic. It is in the info pane, which, if you're using MPE or the Grid or modulators it is best to have open all the time anyway.

The Live 11 implementation of MPE is fine. I bought Live 1.0 in 2001 and used Live as my only DAW from 2003 until 2018. I waited for MPE for years, making huge templates of midi routing channels and all the workarounds before I got tired of doing that (and of the strange loss of MIDI controller assignments in my sessions that required a full reboot to solve.) I doubt that many if any people did more work than I did to make that work well enough... So I'm not dancing on the table about MPE finally coming out—it is LATE. In the meantime I've been hacking very hard on Bitwig's modulators, Grid, Feedback routing and the like to incredible result. There is too much that I can't do in Live to switch over and, notably, only one thing that I can do in Live (comps) that I can't do with my current templates. I would like to have comps, but not at the expense of so much else. I don't think I will buy the upgrade.

[ReleaseCandidate]

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping.

The greatest advantage of Live's MIDI learn is that I can easily change the MIDI mapping on the fly, even for some minutes only. I don't do that with Moß' device mapping, but with Bitwig's own mapping - that can't map everything. Also in Bitwig MIDI takeover ('catch' in Bitwig, 'Pickup' in Live) doesn't work for me, in Live it does.

[Noumena]

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping.

The greatest advantage of Live's MIDI learn is that I can easily change the MIDI mapping on the fly, even for some minutes only. I don't do that with Moß' device mapping, but with Bitwig's own mapping - that can't map everything. Also in Bitwig MIDI takeover ('catch' in Bitwig, 'Pickup' in Live) doesn't work for me, in Live it does.

Shrug -- you can remap MIDI on the fly in BW, even for some minutes. You can also set up macros with many pages and use Flexi to switch between them, also making them on the fly if you'd like. I used to have many MIDI controllers. Flexi+an old motorized fader controller (no need for takeover--I don't think I could live with that being part of my workflow)... this has replaced them all. Also... "you can't map everything" ... meaning what? You can map a lot more than you can on Ableton (without going into M4L), especially w/ Flexi. You can also set up custom modulators, macros, even Grid patches with modular control of parameters that are midi responsive (i.e. visually presented sequencing, mapping, attenuating, envelopes, math, random, etc, patched and mixed and mapped) --all on the fly. I don't want to get into a pissing match about DAWs but the toolkit on BW w/r/t specifically to MIDI and parameter control is unmatched (except possible with Reaper's .js features and VCV's deep library of modulators.) Ableton's got its own strengths, but this isn't in, imo (and I've set up templates for installations in Ableton with several hundred MIDI assignments, written my own modulators in M4L.) I was just trying to correct the upthread post that was incorrect about how MPE/Seaboard works in Bitwig.

[ReleaseCandidate]

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping.

The greatest advantage of Live's MIDI learn is that I can easily change the MIDI mapping on the fly, even for some minutes only. I don't do that with Moß' device mapping, but with Bitwig's own mapping - that can't map everything. Also in Bitwig MIDI takeover ('catch' in Bitwig, 'Pickup' in Live) doesn't work for me, in Live it does.

Shrug -- you can remap MIDI on the fly in BW, even for some minutes. You can also set up macros with many pages and use Flexi to switch between them, also making them on the fly if you'd like. I used to have many MIDI controllers.

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping.

The greatest advantage of Live's MIDI learn is that I can easily change the MIDI mapping on the fly, even for some minutes only. I don't do that with Moß' device mapping, but with Bitwig's own mapping - that can't map everything. Also in Bitwig MIDI takeover ('catch' in Bitwig, 'Pickup' in Live) doesn't work for me, in Live it does.

Shrug -- you can remap MIDI on the fly in BW, even for some minutes.

I know. That's why I wrote (or tried to write that I do that with Bitwig's MIDI mapping and not Moß' flexi.

Flexi+an old motorized fader controller (no need for takeover--I don't think I could live with that being part of my workflow)... this has replaced them all.

There is no motorised fader that speaks MIDI, that is always some proprietary protocol like
There are motorized faders that also can do MIDI CC, but in the MIDI mode all switch off their motor (nowadays there is more or less only Behringer's Xtouch compact and the Faderport 8 - with fixed MIDI CC). Actually I also wouldn't like the feeling of the engadged motor when using it for e.g. 'expression' with an instrument.

Also... "you can't map everything" ... meaning what?

IIRC I couldn't map some parameters of some plugin to knobs that I could in Live. Don't ask what that was, I forgot.

You can map a lot more than you can on Ableton (without going into M4L), especially w/ Flexi.

Oh, I believe that. That's also not what I wanted to say. I just wanted to say that Moß' interface (that's not his fault either) to the MIDI mapping isn't comparable to Live's (or Bitwig's 'normal' MIDI mapping), which is faster and easier, but with less possibilities.

And don't get me wrong: Bitwig still is my 2nd most favorite DAW for composing stuff (not for mixing, but neither is Live) with many features, that I'm missing in Live. But with 11 Live really is _way_ ahead for _me_. But I still use Bitwig 20% of the time (before 11 that has been 55%).

[V0rtex]

damn, Ableton upgrade is pricey regarding FL Studio upgrades,
but it will be over with paid upgrades soon anyway, because I guessing every major software developer will run a subscription model soon as Adobe did it......

You mean upgrade or update? FL Studio is lifetime update, so the costs are zero there...

yea, sry, I mean update....

[V0rtex]

damn, Ableton upgrade is pricey regarding FL Studio upgrades,
but it will be over with paid upgrades soon anyway, because I guessing every major software developer will run a subscription model soon as Adobe did it......

Yes, you're guessing.
Soon? Adobe started subscriptions 8 years ago. How many DAWs have a subscription?

mm, maybe, but Plugin developers already doing it, how much time you think it will take for DAW developers ?

[V0rtex]

damn, Ableton upgrade is pricey regarding FL Studio upgrades,
but it will be over with paid upgrades soon anyway, because I guessing every major software developer will run a subscription model soon as Adobe did it......

Ableton? Never. They are too slow to justify a yearly subscription.

I hope you are right

[antic604]

mm, maybe, but Plugin developers already doing it, how much time you think it will take for DAW developers ?

Negative time. ProTools and Studio One can already be had on subscription. Luckily it's not the only option to get them.

[apoclypse]

mm, maybe, but Plugin developers already doing it, how much time you think it will take for DAW developers ?

Negative time. ProTools and Studio One can already be had on subscription. Luckily it's not the only option to get them.

For now.

[pdxindy]

Now in Ableton 11 MPE works perfect and all the Roli Devices and Fxpansion synths are mapped as they should, just plug and play.

MPE in Live 11 isn't fully implemented yet. It still does not record each notes midi channel.

[zoidkirb]

I don't see many bitter comments on Facebook. I do see a lot of confused folk who thought somehow 10 to 11 would be a free upgrade

[pdxindy]

You cannot map midi in bitwig, there is no table where you can input or select a midi device, all you can do is midi learn.If you use the seaboard and want to use the X / Y Pad, which is automaticly mapped in Ableton, it isn't mapped in bitwig.

So you have to change the midi channel for X/Y Pad in Roli Dashboard to 114 / 114 for mapping, because Midi Learn has problems with both parameters simultaniously. ALso you cannot safe your mapped instrument as a preset rack like in ableton.

Also the MPE enable button is very hidden, since a Bitwig 2 Update.

Bitwig has DrivenbyMoss's 3rd party Flexi extension, which is better in my opinion than anything that is available for Ableton by a long measure wrt MIDI mapping. It is so capable and flexible that it is confusing to learn—that's the flaw, but incredibly rewarding once you have it going.

The XY pad on the Seaboard is automatically mapped to an XY modulator on the active instrument as per the documentation -- this is more than equivalent to the implementation on Ableton... I find it to be more flexible.

I can't see how the position of the MPE button is problematic. It is in the info pane, which, if you're using MPE or the Grid or modulators it is best to have open all the time anyway.

The Flexi script is awesome! It means I can make any unsupported midi controller work, no matter how obscure. It also means that I can repurpose any midi controller to function how I want.

Save VST instruments as default preset with the MPE button active, then whenever you add that instrument to a track the MPE button will automatically be active. Bitwig instruments need no configuration for MPE.