Need Help To Understand Multiparameters

[werzel]

I'm struggling.
1. Let's say I have 2 parameters (A & B) that I would like to move inverted to one another. (easy enough to set up)
I would like to limit their movements by how far past one another they are permitted to go. How could I accomplish this?

2. And if I wanted to add a 3rd parameter (C) that would move A and B up/ down together without conflicting with the function of #1?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

[DarkStar]

Let's see if I understand
a) You want the parameters to differ by, say, a maximum of 50% Value pairs of 10% and 50%, 20% and 70% are OK, but 10% and 70% is not.
b) You want to move both values equally. e.g from 10%/50% to 27%/67%

If that is not right, then please give some examples and "corner-cases".

[HorusAnd]

I'm not sure if this is what OP means buttt, I have a persistent place where I find this useful. Which is crossover values or a low / high pass filter. Where one should "push" the other because their overlapping produces silence which is not wanted.

The behavior is that way on almost every vst from any other company but, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get MPs to behave this way when on an easy screen.

Basically, say, a high pass filter should push the low pass filter down if it's value is less than that of the low pass filter but it should not pull it back up.

Hope that makes sense..

[DarkStar]

^^^
This might be a start (MXXX/ Equalizer)

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[HorusAnd]

^^^
This might be a start (MXXX/ Equalizer)

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Exactly! That's where I get stuck tho lol. I can't get the other one to stay still when they're moving apart lol. I think the action is too complicated for MPs. There would need to be a "If value is < x then do / don't move y"?

[sirmonkey]

I think that have the answer: Use the Transformation Shape tool.
Click the multiparameter to edit it, and you'll see the button at the bottom right.
You'll get a simple x-y graph, and you can draw any shape you like.
This graph controls what any individual parameter does for any value of the multiparameter.
For example, if you draw a symmetrical upside-V shape curve, from 0% to 50% values
of the multiparameter, it would act "normal". But at values past 50%, the parameter
would go "down" instead of continuing to go up (at higher and higher values).
I hope I'm explaining this in an understandable way. But I'm sure you'll get, even
if I could have described this better.

[werzel]

1st - Thank you all for your replies and efforts in understanding my poorly presented problem.

2nd - Thank you DarkStar for the EQ idea to present the solution. Now I can proceed/ clarify with graphics and hopefully illustrate it more clearly.

A:

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B:

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C:

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I modified Dark's MXXX1 preset as such:
MP 1 = Parameter 1 range
MP 2 = Parameter 2 range (invert of MP 1)
MP 3 = Sets the range of MP 1 & 2
MP 4 = Moves the location of MP 3 *(only set up using Freq 6 for illustration purposes)

My first problem is perfectly illustrated by the EQ graph. If you move MP 3 to the point that MP 1 & 2 have passed one another (as shown in preset B), that is how I would like to limit the range of MP 3.

Second problem is set up in preset C. I have set an arbitrary range for MP 3. Here I would like to have MP 4 move MP 3 up/ down while maintaining the range set by MP 3 (relationship of MP 1 to MP 2). Once MP 1 reaches its lowest point (as set by the range), I want that to be the furthest that MP4 can move in that direction. And the inverse applied to the other direction.

BUT, I would also like to be able to fine tune things by adjusting the range of MP 3 after MP 4 has moved them all.

I really hope that I've been clear in illustrating things and really do appreciate all of the help.

[HorusAnd]

I think that have the answer: Use the Transformation Shape tool.
Click the multiparameter to edit it, and you'll see the button at the bottom right.
You'll get a simple x-y graph, and you can draw any shape you like.
This graph controls what any individual parameter does for any value of the multiparameter.
For example, if you draw a symmetrical upside-V shape curve, from 0% to 50% values
of the multiparameter, it would act "normal". But at values past 50%, the parameter
would go "down" instead of continuing to go up (at higher and higher values).
I hope I'm explaining this in an understandable way. But I'm sure you'll get, even
if I could have described this better.

This still doesn't get the behavior I was referring to. The behavior is linear, so the curve doesn't help. The graph allows you to do 'X = Y', the behavior necessary would be 'X = Y' but only when moving in one direction. So moving one direction follow the graph and then moving the other direction, bypass control of the other parameter all together.

If you have something like RC-20 check out how the cutoff values at the bottom behave.

The reason I'm using this as an example is because it's the same problem OP has but simplified. OP somehow wants to be able to say "X = Y (+/-) 0 ~ 50%" and on top of that OP has an argument like "Unless Y = A or B then..."

[sirmonkey]

This still doesn't get the behavior I was referring to. The behavior is linear, so the curve doesn't help. The graph allows you to do 'X = Y', the behavior necessary would be 'X = Y' but only when moving in one direction. So moving one direction follow the graph and then moving the other direction, bypass control of the other parameter all together.

If you have something like RC-20 check out how the cutoff values at the bottom behave.

The reason I'm using this as an example is because it's the same problem OP has but simplified. OP somehow wants to be able to say "X = Y (+/-) 0 ~ 50%" and on top of that OP has an argument like "Unless Y = A or B then..."

I only partly understand, as you and werzel are after similar, but different things. Not only am I mixing them up, I wound up getting totally brain-fried up when experimenting with the multparameters.
But anyway, I'm going to post a preset, which does weird things. Maybe it's still not what you're looking for, but maybe it will give you some ideas...

[sirmonkey]

Code: Select all

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Here, MP1 controls "Band 1" (low-cut filter), and "Band 0" (High Shelf, which is band 10 but shows as band "0" in the GUI)
Start with MP1 at 0%. Slowly dial it up. Band 1's frequency range increases, and band 10 moves towards it, but is disabled (doesn't make sense to do that- just showing what can be done).
As you keep increasing MP1, the low cut does less cutting, and Band 0 turns on just before they cross.
* But it can turn on and off anywhere, as many times as you want.
At some point, band 1 stops attenuating and boosts instead. Then it heads back down the frequency spectrum. Also, at higher MP1 %, Band 0 boosts more, then cuts, and then turns off at about 90%.

Of course this is zany stuff, but maybe it will give you some ideas.