Tal J-8

[waltercruz]

Two totally different attack stages , second being a lot longer
There is no harm in tweaking one to make it sound closer to the o.g.

indeed are some micro-adjustments on ENV-1 mod and ENV-1 decay. ~ -8.58 (on env 1 mod and somewhat around 5 on ENV-1 decay gets really close -> and more faithfull to the Roland Cloud original. BTW this is a original patch from Roland Cloud/System-8, not from the Jupiter-8 Factory (well, probably this is not important to anyone, )

[Teksonik]

The new demo noise is much better.

Probably a stupid question but in Dual Mode how does one Solo each of the parts ? I'm sure it's right in front of my eyes and I'm just not seeing it. Doesn't seem to be Upper Lower Balance which I thought might change to Part A/B balance in Dual Mode.

I'm getting some lovely sounds from Tal J-8.

[ATN69]

For some reason I find that the main volume control have very little impact. The sound level does change but not by much. It's not a big issue of course but I just wanted to mention it. I just upgraded to FL Studio 20.8 today and I also just bought my J-8 license today. So far I love this take on the classic Jupiter 8. It sounds great.

For info, I am on Windows 10

[ATN69]

The new demo noise is much better.

Probably a stupid question but in Dual Mode how does one Solo each of the parts ? I'm sure it's right in front of my eyes and I'm just not seeing it. Doesn't seem to be Upper Lower Balance which I thought might change to Part A/B balance in Dual Mode.

I'm getting some lovely sounds from Tal J-8.

I am not sure I understand the question but, is it this you are looking for perhaps?
EDIT: I just realized you must be talking about the DUAL / SPLIT / WHOLE functions, sorry.

J-8.jpg

[Tj Shredder]

MPE is severely broken. I think himalaya pointed it out already. Any hint when and if it will be fixed?

[ATN69]

I figured it out. You need to go from DUAL to WHOLE, and then select either LOWER or UPPER depending on what part you want to solo.

[EvilDragon]

That said, I have an MKS-70 over here that's a DCO analog and they made it so that it's impossible to tune the two oscillators to locked phases too... Not even all DCOs are made equal.

Speaking of which, are there any good MKS-70 emulations out there in the plugin world?

PG-8X is pretty close.

[EvilDragon]

For some reason I find that the main volume control have very little impact. The sound level does change but not by much. It's not a big issue of course but I just wanted to mention it. I just upgraded to FL Studio 20.8 today and I also just bought my J-8 license today. So far I love this take on the classic Jupiter 8. It sounds great.

For info, I am on Windows 10

Disable additional outputs in FL Wrapper. J-8 outputs upper and lower parts to separate additional outputs, and FL stupidly always enables additional outputs regardless if you want it to or not.

[ToguAudioLine]

Ok, I think it's just a bug. Here, try this:

1. Load up J-8
2. Load the "Default" patch
3. Set the Fine Tune to 0
4. Play some notes

Result: static sounding. Ok, now...

5. Turn the osc blend knob right and left

Result: the sound of the osc changes. If they were perfectly in phase, I'm not sure I'd expect that to occur. Now, wait for it...

6. Turn Sync On

Result: Sound changes. Ok, now they're truly phase locked. Sound changed. As expected. Ready for the bug?

7. Turn Sync off

Result: no change at all. The oscillators remain completely phase locked as though sync was still on.

Definitely not what I'm expecting. Definitely points to a bug. Maybe there's a little creepy crawly bug that got into the code where the oscs were supposed to be free running and/or pitch drifty over time and they're starting out not perfectly in phase, but getting stuck there.

Thanks for reporting this. The oscillators remain in that phase because they have exactly the same pitch. If you detune VCO2 they go out of phase as expected.
I tried this with my Jupiter 8 and it is the same. But i wasn't able to set the detune knob exactly to zero. So it starts to drift away when removing the sync. I will make some more tests...

[EvilDragon]

And my vintage SH-2 when perfectly tuned also does not start with random oscillator phases.

Hmmmm that sounds like phases on it are then restarted with gate on. Supremely weird/super uncommon for VCO analogs... And yeah RC SH-2 no way to lock the phases with fine tune no matter how hard you try... hmmm.

Of course, potentiometer tolerances and ESR will make it really difficult to exactly tune the oscillators like you can here in J-8 just by double-clicking the finetune knob.

I still think this shouldn't happen - there's a reason why both RC and Arturia versions go out of their way to not make the sound as dead and "un-analog" as possible...

[ATN69]

For some reason I find that the main volume control have very little impact. The sound level does change but not by much. It's not a big issue of course but I just wanted to mention it. I just upgraded to FL Studio 20.8 today and I also just bought my J-8 license today. So far I love this take on the classic Jupiter 8. It sounds great.

For info, I am on Windows 10

Disable additional outputs in FL Wrapper. J-8 outputs upper and lower parts to separate additional outputs, and FL stupidly always enables additional outputs regardless if you want it to or not.

Thanks! It worked just fine.

[Stefken]

Rather that software gets absolete/outdated pretty fast ( it is also a fast moving business) and is disposed of quickly.

I don't think it's entirely true nowadays, and same goes for computer hardware. Depends on how you define fast, of course. U-he is a good example for long term support. Zebra 2 is what, around 15 years old by now? And it still receives free updates, with some companies it would've been Zebra 9 at least. Diva has been around since 2011. All the major DAWs are still here by and large, the sole exception is maybe Sonar, but I'm not entirely sure what its state of development is (it is still available though, and it's free too nowadays).

The problem is that it's a pretty new industry, but we do start seeing certain outliers like u-he that are unlikely to go away anytime soon. Besides, what were the biggest problem with older synths? 32 bit only, and no hi-res monitor support. I'm pretty sure any relatively modern VST3 instrument will last for a really good while. It's kinda like computer hardware. In the 90s and even early 2000s your computer could get obsolete in a matter of months. Not really the case anymore, this kind of crazy obsolescence cycle is over from somewhere around early 2010s.

But the biggest argument is that the cost isn't even remotely comparable. Hardware synths are obscenely more expensive.

Things are certainly slowing down, that is true.

[himalaya]

I still think this shouldn't happen - there's a reason why both RC and Arturia versions go out of their way to not make the sound as dead and "un-analog" as possible...

Out of interest, I've dowloaded the Arturia demo. Its behaviour is exactly the same as J-8.

Zero all advanced features like effects and what not. Set two VCOs, source mix at zero. Set the oscillators to 'zero' detune. Result = no phase shift of any kind. A "dead" sound, as you describe it. The oscillators phase cancellation occurs in expected ways, making the sound thin, nasal, and unpleasant. To be expected. J-8 works in the same way.

I set the two synths to -40cents. The phase moves in the same way in both.

Your statements sound a bit bombastic and are untrue. Especially since J-8 also includes a page where you can set parameter randomisation per voice (the SC tab in the top right corner) so it can sound very 'organic' and 'random' if that's what you want.

The J-8 works just as it should. No issues.

[EvilDragon]

I have the Arturia version here too, and I posted an example how things sound between RC, Arturia and J-8 starting from the synth set up the same.

On Arturia you can ONLY get the dead sound if you turn the osc pitch trimmer (which is hidden by default unless you hover above them) all the way down to zero. Otherwise nope, you can get close to that but there's always some movement and you can hear phasing even when manually Shift+drag tweaking finetune to get them as close as possible. Listen to my audio example again. You have to go out of your way to get there, whereas J-8 forces this behavior on you simply by setting fine tune to 0...

https://app.box.com/s/25vlhtpbnfvrbdbzyaullnka2uiedk5w

Another difference is if you play another note than middle C. Arturia definitely has beatings there whereas J-8 doesn't (once you get the oscs into frozen phases). RC version also behaves like Arturia in this regard. Surely they can't all be wrong? These are different pitches so phase relationships would be different and finetune in cents is a relative not an absolute detune in Hz (like on, say, Moog Sub 37 where you can detune in Hz to have exactly the same beatings no matter which note you play) so of COURSE beatings should be different depending on which note you play. J-8 doesn't work like this.

https://app.box.com/s/wt0n40niw98w5f022jg7eajt0lmajj95


On RC version it's impossible to get oscillators with frozen phase relationship, but this might be down to their parameter ranges being limited to 256 values.

Especially since J-8 also includes a page where you can set parameter randomisation per voice (the SC tab in the top right corner) so it can sound very 'organic' and 'random' if that's what you want.

I am not at all talking about things between different voices, so SC page doesn't help here.

[EvilDragon]

Oh and here's another bug. Seems like J-8 doesn't want to play a note starting from the very beginning of the project in Reaper.