Exponential Audio Verbs: PhoenixVerb, Nimbus, R4. Your Thoughts?

[Winstontaneous]

I'm curious about R4's ability to modulate the ER and tail separately---how useful does that actually end up being?...

If the answer is "not very" I'm wondering whether Neoverb might be better in the long run.

To my ear, though R4 has a lot of modulation options (ER/Tail, Chorus/Random, and Density in Hall 2) none of the mod options sounds as obviously over-the-top modulated as, say Valhalla Vintage Verb at its more extreme settings. You can definitely hear the ER/Tail mod in R4 by applying it to medium-deep notch filters, and then setting ER Width to Narrow and Tail width to Wide. Whether this is useful or works for the song is another question. Nimbus is my favorite "natural" reverb, and R4 is in my top 3 or so "character" reverbs - with 3 multimode filters, tempo-sync predelay / reverb delay, and tail suppression it's really easy to get them to only take up as much space in the mix as you want.

I'll try Neoverb sometime since I love the EA algorithms...but I'm really well covered in the reverb department, and I really don't like what AI does for Sonible's smart:verb so I'll wait for an iZotope blowout sale.

[acousticglue]

What does Nimbus do that R4 doesnt?

[chk071]

They sound completely different, for example.

[gondii]

What does Nimbus do that R4 doesnt?

You have to ask for the features of PhoenixVerb compared to Nimbus and R2 compared to R4. In short the former are very clean, subtle and transparent reverbs while the latter are coloured vintage emulations, so completely different sound. And the more expensive versions each have an additional algorithm compared to their smaller siblings as well as the "warp" section which offers some additional sound shaping tools like distortion/crushing/compression and a ton more presets.

[evilantal]

I bought Phoenix and then Nimbus a long time ago (full price times). IMO, Nimbus shouldn't have been marketed as anything more than a Phoenix upgrade. Having said that, the additional ER patterns made Nimbus almost useful for me.

"Almost useful"?

[chk071]

What does Nimbus do that R4 doesnt?

You have to ask for the features of PhoenixVerb compared to Nimbus and R2 compared to R4. In short the former are very clean, subtle and transparent reverbs while the latter are coloured vintage emulations, so completely different sound. And the more expensive versions each have an additional algorithm compared to their smaller siblings as well as the "warp" section which offers some additional sound shaping tools like distortion/crushing/compression and a ton more presets.

This. It's not really this vs. that, rather your sound preference in the case of Nimbus and R4.

[Scarlet Pumpernickel]

I bought Phoenix and then Nimbus a long time ago (full price times). IMO, Nimbus shouldn't have been marketed as anything more than a Phoenix upgrade. Having said that, the additional ER patterns made Nimbus almost useful for me.

"Almost useful"?

Exponential audio reverbs (Phoenix and Nimbus) turned out to be not my cup of tea eventually. Both of those rarely made it to the end of a project. Yet still I think, new ER patterns in Nimbus are the most important addition and if one finds Phoenix useful, Nimbus would be useful in a wider number of cases.

[Ou_Tis]

I'll try Neoverb sometime since I love the EA algorithms...but I'm really well covered in the reverb department, and I really don't like what AI does for Sonible's smart:verb so I'll wait for an iZotope blowout sale.

I find the blend pad almost as appealing as the AI EQ. Though perhaps it wouldn't be difficult to set up the same thing with 3 instances of Nimbus or R4 and an XY pad. Looking into it now it seems I mistakenly assumed Neoverb's AI would consider other tracks... the unmasking meter communicates with Neutron and Relay on other tracks, but that's not incorporated into the unmasking AI, which only applies to the input track. Perhaps that will be an update? Neoverb also doesn't appear to have dynamic tail suppression or a built-in compressor, saturation, or word length option (so presets / AI don't include them). There also doesn't appear to be a dynamic EQ / resonance suppression option. It does include a transient softener which could be useful.

[fold4]

I'm considering buying Nimbus in the current sale. I've tried R2, R4, Phoenixverb, and Nimbus. Nimbus was the only one I really liked enough to maybe buy. Maybe, because I'm also eyeing Valhalla Room. I think both sound good but can't decide which I prefer. My Nimbus trial runs out on Tuesday.

[Cooker]

I'm considering buying Nimbus in the current sale. I've tried R2, R4, Phoenixverb, and Nimbus. Nimbus was the only one I really liked enough to maybe buy. Maybe, because I'm also eyeing Valhalla Room. I think both sound good but can't decide which I prefer. My Nimbus trial runs out on Tuesday.

Hard to say but I also like Nimbus most and it doesn't get discounted often.

[acousticglue]

I think Phoenixverb works great on rhythm guitar and the modulation in R4 for leads

[Dirtgrain]

It is hard to have discussions on the quality of a reverb without knowing what type of music each person in the discussion is making. I very much like Nimbus on sampled instruments (violin, guitar, piano, and others), but it isn't one that I usually go for when I'm making an ambient electronic piece (it still might work in a pinch, but I like my other options better). If somebody is doing a lot with vocals, maybe that is another case to consider. And so on.

[fold4]

What are the reasons you prefer other reverbs than Nimbus for electronic music? I don't believe that a sound being generated by synthesis means it will naturally benefit less from a reverb aimed at emulating the natural sound of a real space.

My music is primarily electronic, though not ambient. I will sometimes include samples of instruments like guitars, cello, etc. Percussion instruments are almost always samples (I don't much like the sound of most generated percussion for my music, even if I like it in the music of others.) I do use vocal sounds but not as pure vocals. Put through synths like Pharlight, Form, and other devices which mangle or convert the vocal into an instrument.

I found both Nimbus and Valhalla Room work nicely on synth leads. Both produce a sound that is notably different from Pro-R (my primary reverb) or R2/R4 (the former of which I didn't like, the latter of which I liked but it didn't distinguish itself enough from Pro-R to be worth buying.) Haven't tried them on the vocal instruments.

My primary use case for reverb is to create relatively small spaces that add depth and texture to a sound. Occasionally I'll want something bigger, or more "effect" like. For that I'll usually turn to NI Raum or Valhalla Supermassive but I have no reason to believe that Nimbus/Valhalla Room wouldn't sometimes also suit. To my ears having one of them would add variety to what I can achieve with a reverb.

If that's enough information to help give an opinion on whether you think either Nimbus or Valhalla room is suited to me, great . If not, an opinion on Nimbus vs Valhalla Room for what you think they're good for, as to me they're both aimed at creating the same general style of reverb should still be possible.

[chk071]

It is hard to have discussions on the quality of a reverb without knowing what type of music each person in the discussion is making. I very much like Nimbus on sampled instruments (violin, guitar, piano, and others), but it isn't one that I usually go for when I'm making an ambient electronic piece (it still might work in a pinch, but I like my other options better). If somebody is doing a lot with vocals, maybe that is another case to consider. And so on.

I only own PhoenixVerb (the little brother of Nimbus), but, it is great on percussions as well.

As you say, horses for courses. I tried PhoneixVerb also on synth and pad sound, and didn't like it. I think it's much more suited to percussive sounds (and sounds better on those than a reverb which sounds good on pads etc.).

[Ou_Tis]

It is hard to have discussions on the quality of a reverb without knowing what type of music each person in the discussion is making. I very much like Nimbus on sampled instruments (violin, guitar, piano, and others), but it isn't one that I usually go for when I'm making an ambient electronic piece (it still might work in a pinch, but I like my other options better). If somebody is doing a lot with vocals, maybe that is another case to consider. And so on.

I only own PhoenixVerb (the little brother of Nimbus), but, it is great on percussions as well.

As you say, horses for courses. I tried PhoneixVerb also on synth and pad sound, and didn't like it. I think it's much more suited to percussive sounds (and sounds better on those than a reverb which sounds good on pads etc.).

For synths, I find it nice for adding a barely noticeable sense of space or slight thickening with minimal change to the character of the synth. The sort of reverb that you don't notice in the mix until you remove it.

If I already love the coloration of a synth sound I often don't want to muck it up with a character reverb. Also, Nimbus is nice as a relatively low-cpu secondary reverb. For my primary effect reverb I often use high-cpu reverbs, so Nimbus is a nice complement.

Of course Nimbus does have the two plate algorithms (bright or dark), saturation/distortion, and the word length (from vintage to slight bit crush). So it can provide coloration if you want it to, and the presets have it already set up. I like a few of those, and there are many interesting ones (including creative uses of the filters---and I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to automate the notch or band pass filters in your DAW).

Still wondering if R4 is worth it for $29 if I can eventually get Valhalla Vintage Verb second-hand for $40. Then again I want two of the PB free-with-purchase this month and haven't decided on my second purchase. R4 apparently has less build up of mud than VVV. But VVV uses significantly less cpu than R4. It would be nice to have a low-cpu character reverb, partly for convenience in projects with high cpu usage, and partly to combine with my high-cpu reverbs. Thinking about the combination of multiple reverbs with different characters in CLA Epic has me wondering now how I might do that with other reverbs---if I want to try combining 4 to 6 reverbs most of them will have to be relatively low-cpu.