MDrumReplacer 'Subtract Side-Chain' not functioning?
-
- KVRer
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Hello everyone. Ive been trying to get the Subtract side-chain feature working. So far, I believe the routing is correct, the Global Meter shows In, Side and Out are all three receiving a signal but when I click on Subtract side-chain nothing changes. I have allot of bleed on my Snare track from the Tom. In Reaper 6, I have a Send from my Tom to the Snare, Audio 1/2 -> 3/4 and the I/O on the UI indicates 4 in 2 out. Any ideas? Thanks
-
- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
That routing sounds OK.
What result were you expecting. The "Subtract side-chain" aims to remove the side-chain audio from the detection. I had hoped that the following would show the difference, but I am getting some odd extra events:
Here are the results for 4 snare-only hits and 4 snare-and-tom hits, without and with sidechain removal. These results are different but not what I expected. Maybe because of the artificial method I used?
What you could try is:
-- forget the "Subtract side-chain"
-- Send the Tom track to the Snare track, 1/2 -> 1/2 and invert the Phase in the Send window
What result were you expecting. The "Subtract side-chain" aims to remove the side-chain audio from the detection. I had hoped that the following would show the difference, but I am getting some odd extra events:
Here are the results for 4 snare-only hits and 4 snare-and-tom hits, without and with sidechain removal. These results are different but not what I expected. Maybe because of the artificial method I used?
What you could try is:
-- forget the "Subtract side-chain"
-- Send the Tom track to the Snare track, 1/2 -> 1/2 and invert the Phase in the Send window
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Thank you Darkstar. I’m still trying to figure it out but I think I was expecting the Tom signal to be eliminated all together. I might well be wrong about that. I just hear any difference at all. Also, I use Trigger 2 on my Snare track, I’m trying to avoid false triggering from the Tom bleed. Clicking on Subtract side-chain has no affect on Trigger and the false triggers continue as if MDrumReplacer was not being used. On another forum, a poster says he is using MDrumReplacer for exactly my scenario (though Kick track) and the Subtract side-chain works great.
I’ll give invert the Phase to see what that does. Thanks again.
I’ll give invert the Phase to see what that does. Thanks again.
-
- KVRAF
- 10376 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK
No, the Tom bleed will not disappear from the Snare track's main audio; it is just removed from the audio sent to the detector.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Interesting, I’ll have to re-think what is going on. Side chaining is new to me, and so is MDrumReplacer for that matter. All I can observe at this point is that the Tom bleed into Trigger has not changed.DarkStar wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:26 pm No, the Tom bleed will not disappear from the Snare track's main audio; it is just removed from the audio sent to the detector.
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Here’s the quote from a very helpful member at another forum. In his instance, it was the Kick that was Bleeding into the Snare track.
“On one song, I ended up using an instance of Slate Trigger after the MDrumReplacer, which i was using for levelling and gating. That worked exceptionally well and allowed me to use the Slate plug to trigger some intricate ghost note stuff in a realistic fashion.
I fed the kick channel to MDrumReplacer's sidechain and used the 'exclude sidechain' option (i'm pretty sure that's what it was called...), and that made the gating of the snare pretty much fool-proof. Full hits and ghosts came through, and then i used the levelling function set to two different dynamics (one for full hits, one for ghost notes).”
Rereading his post, in this instance perhaps I’m thinking of side-chaining wrong. The Tom signal being side-chained thru MDrumReplacer to Trigger at this point is unprocessed so that’s why it sounds and has the same affect on Trigger as not side-chaining it. The quote from above suggests that not only was the signal side-chained to MDrumReplacer but it was also processed (leveled and gated) within MDrumReplacer before being sent on to Trigger and that’s what’s making the difference, true? Maybe clicking on Subtract side-chain then applies those effects, ?
“On one song, I ended up using an instance of Slate Trigger after the MDrumReplacer, which i was using for levelling and gating. That worked exceptionally well and allowed me to use the Slate plug to trigger some intricate ghost note stuff in a realistic fashion.
I fed the kick channel to MDrumReplacer's sidechain and used the 'exclude sidechain' option (i'm pretty sure that's what it was called...), and that made the gating of the snare pretty much fool-proof. Full hits and ghosts came through, and then i used the levelling function set to two different dynamics (one for full hits, one for ghost notes).”
Rereading his post, in this instance perhaps I’m thinking of side-chaining wrong. The Tom signal being side-chained thru MDrumReplacer to Trigger at this point is unprocessed so that’s why it sounds and has the same affect on Trigger as not side-chaining it. The quote from above suggests that not only was the signal side-chained to MDrumReplacer but it was also processed (leveled and gated) within MDrumReplacer before being sent on to Trigger and that’s what’s making the difference, true? Maybe clicking on Subtract side-chain then applies those effects, ?
-
MeldaProduction MeldaProduction https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=176122 - KVRAF
- 14339 posts since 15 Mar, 2008 from Czech republic
Hmmm, please make sure you are using the newest version, I remember there were some issues with this initially. If it still does that, please contact me directly via info@meldaproduction.com and send me some small project.
-
- KVRian
- 915 posts since 2 May, 2015
...the removal is from the side-chain input to the trigger. It does not remove it from the input signal itself. Turn the balance knob to 100% wet and notice what gets triggered and sent to the output. Took me a bit to figure that one out.../s~
mba m2 15" | 16gig.ram | 1tb ssd | macOS 26.1 Tahoe
logic 11.2.2 | reaper 7.75 | cubase 14.0.4
focusrite.2i2 | A&H CQ18t
logic 11.2.2 | reaper 7.75 | cubase 14.0.4
focusrite.2i2 | A&H CQ18t
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Thank you Steve, I’ll check that out.steve2KVR wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:18 pm ...the removal is from the side-chain input to the trigger. It does not remove it from the input signal itself. Turn the balance knob to 100% wet and notice what gets triggered and sent to the output. Took me a bit to figure that one out.../s~
-
- KVRian
- 915 posts since 2 May, 2015
It took me a very careful reading of the on line help; often the case for me with Melda. I have a habit of trying everybody's everything to see what can be learned. For me there are a lot of very good fx processors out there, and some not so much, but I have always ended up finding a solution with Melda.
I'm comfortable with the GUI, especially the consistency between processors, and have learned to take my time figuring out what can actually be done. If one knob gets is done for someone, go for it, no worries. I've actually done a couple of MXXX "simple" screens for myself that are just that...so go have fun...hth.../s~
I'm comfortable with the GUI, especially the consistency between processors, and have learned to take my time figuring out what can actually be done. If one knob gets is done for someone, go for it, no worries. I've actually done a couple of MXXX "simple" screens for myself that are just that...so go have fun...hth.../s~
mba m2 15" | 16gig.ram | 1tb ssd | macOS 26.1 Tahoe
logic 11.2.2 | reaper 7.75 | cubase 14.0.4
focusrite.2i2 | A&H CQ18t
logic 11.2.2 | reaper 7.75 | cubase 14.0.4
focusrite.2i2 | A&H CQ18t
-
- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 17 posts since 4 Aug, 2020
Glad to report it is working 
I think it was the update to version 14.15, from the previous 14.14 that made the difference. Another thing that helps is duplicating the Tom track, send to Snare, *and unchecking the Master send. That kept the Tom sound from the side-chain from increasing the Tom’s volume.
Thank you all for your help, and Merry Christmas!
I think it was the update to version 14.15, from the previous 14.14 that made the difference. Another thing that helps is duplicating the Tom track, send to Snare, *and unchecking the Master send. That kept the Tom sound from the side-chain from increasing the Tom’s volume.Thank you all for your help, and Merry Christmas!