Cubase 11 available now

[Trensharo]

VST3 handling - for some reason one can't change the path for where VST3 are installed (it expects the default C/Program Files/Common/VST3 on PC) so in my case where I keep all VST formats in one custom folder tree I only had access to VST2

That are VST3 specifications & has nothing to do with a certain Sequencer:

Well, because the specs are from Steinberg, Cubase is the only DAW that I know of in which you can't change them.

No, not really. VST3 spec has a mandatory place for the plug-ins to be installed (contrary to what happened with VST2).

Yes, I know. But because the VST3 specs are from Steinberg, their DAWs are the only ones that I know of that do not allow for other directories to search for VST3 too. Yes, I firmly believe that Cubase would have additional search paths if the VST3 definitions were made by e.g. Ableton.

That's not a Cubase Problem. That's a You Problem.

The Spec lists a Standard Directory primarily because of the issues that happened with VST2, where developers would install to a multitude of different directories, creating a mess on the user's machine. Without a standard, developers tend to be very lazy about this stuff. Look at how most of them use the User Documents Folder as if it's %ProgramData% or %AppData% on Windows systems...

There are still plugin developers that try to install to "C:\VstPlugins" or "C:\Program Files\VstPlugins" and there are even some developers that install to DAW-specific directories (AAS installing duplicate VST2 plug-ins to Cakewalk SONAR directories - creating them if they don't exist, etc.).

Treat VST3 the way you'd treat AAX and AU. There is a place for them. Use that place.

[ReleaseCandidate]

VST3 handling - for some reason one can't change the path for where VST3 are installed (it expects the default C/Program Files/Common/VST3 on PC) so in my case where I keep all VST formats in one custom folder tree I only had access to VST2

That are VST3 specifications & has nothing to do with a certain Sequencer:

Well, because the specs are from Steinberg, Cubase is the only DAW that I know of in which you can't change them.

No, not really. VST3 spec has a mandatory place for the plug-ins to be installed (contrary to what happened with VST2).

Yes, I know. But because the VST3 specs are from Steinberg, their DAWs are the only ones that I know of that do not allow for other directories to search for VST3 too. Yes, I firmly believe that Cubase would have additional search paths if the VST3 definitions were made by e.g. Ableton.

That's not a Cubase Problem. That's a You Problem.

Well, it's a problem that Steinberg created with their VST API and is now trying to migitate by at least confining the plugins to one directory.

The Spec lists a Standard Directory primarily because of the issues that happened with VST2, where developers would install to a multitude of different directories, creating a mess on the user's machine. Without a standard, developers tend to be very lazy about this stuff. Look at how most of them use the User Documents Folder as if it's %ProgramData% or %AppData% on Windows systems...

Oh yes, I'm all with you on that and your post over at Vi-Control. But the problém with the VST directory is a problém with the handling of plugins in general (and now we're back at Steinberg and their ABI/API).
First of all, the installing and deinstalling of plugins: some generate a subdirectory for their plugins (and use that for all or not all of their plugins), some don't. Some install their dáta (U-he do that) into the plugin directory, some use an appropriate path. Some come with deinstallers (no, not all with installers also use deinstallers), some don't.
Versioning is non-existent. You also can't distinguish audio FX from instruments.
And don't get mé started with VST3 tags.
So, the user is more or less on his own to manage the plugins and it's directory.

Now come programs that use the plugins. Not only the DAW(s) that you use, but also audio editors, notation software, video editors, compositing software,... All of them have problems with at least some of the plugins, and not all of them do blacklisting or it doesn't work.
And so on..

Tl;dr: I really, really would like to _not_ have to deal with anything in the VST3 plugin directory at all, but I have to. And using more than one directory make that easier.

Oh yes, I forgot about installers that create a directory if the directory is a link and not a directory.

[fmr]

There are still plugin developers that try to install to "C:\VstPlugins" or "C:\Program Files\VstPlugins"

Funny enough, C:\Program Files\VstPlugIns is where I have mine. I admit that Program Files\Common Files\VstPlugIns would have been my choice, if I had made it AFTER seeing the VST3 option. But now, I am so used to the Program Files\VstPlugIns that I always use that place to install them.

Treat VST3 the way you'd treat AAX and AU. There is a place for them. Use that place.

Absolutely... Actually, in macOS they are treated that way. They have a place in Library/Audio/Plugins and are always installed in there. Only in Windows is this a problem, mainly because Steinberg started by installing them inside Steinberg\VstPlugIns directory (they should have never do do that).

[ReleaseCandidate]

And my favourites: companies that install every plugin they have as a demo and don't let you uninstall these.
No, this does not motivate mé to buy any other plugin from you!

[fmr]

First of all, the installing and deinstalling of plugins: some generate a subdirectory for their plugins (and use that for all or not all of their plugins), some don't.

Actually, this should be mandatory for ALL plug-ins and ALL vendors. It wuld make manual management of the files much easier. I hate when I go to the plug-in directories in macOS (AU and VST3) and see a big amount of file, without any clue of what belongs to whom.

Some install their dáta (U-he do that) into the plugin directory, some use an appropriate path. Some come with deinstallers (no, not all with installers also use deinstallers), some don't.

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory. They install a link to the appropriate folder, that is usually in Documents (but is user definable)

Second, most of the plug-in vendors have uninstallers, but many times there are not necessary, because the only thing that's installed is the DLL file, so you just have to delete that. Actually, there are even vendors that offer you the option to download the plug-ins WUTHOUT and installer, since thet only thing that's neded is to copy the DLL into the appropriate folder.

Again, the situation in macOS is much worse. in macOS NO ONE (or almost no one) has uninstallers.

[ReleaseCandidate]

First of all, the installing and deinstalling of plugins: some generate a subdirectory for their plugins (and use that for all or not all of their plugins), some don't.

Actually, this should be mandatory for ALL plug-ins and ALL vendors. It wuld make manual management of the files much easier. I hate when I go to the plug-in directories in macOS (AU and VST3) and see a big amount of file, without any clue of what belongs to whom.

Some install their dáta (U-he do that) into the plugin directory, some use an appropriate path. Some come with deinstallers (no, not all with installers also use deinstallers), some don't.

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory.

No, U-he installed in the 32bit VST directory and linked from all other plugin directories to that one.

Second, most of the plug-in vendors have uninstallers, but many times there are not necessary, because the only thing that's installed is the DLL file, so you just have to delete that.

I strongly differ about that 'not necessary'.
The problem is, that you first have to make súre there is no uninstaller (if you delete the file and the uninstaller exists, you'll have a broken uninstaller in your system that is a PITA to remove). And then you have to get the filenane (which are sometimes different for VST3 and VST2) and delete up to 4 files in different directories for VST alone (not talking about AU and AAX).

[fmr]

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory.

No, U-he installed in the 32bit VST directory and linked from all other plugin directories to that one.

That's not the default directory. You can move the Data folders to another directory, and simply create links to that directory. As I said, those Data folders are user definable. You probably opted to create them there in the first place.

here are the default folder locations (quoting the manual of Zebra2):

"During installation, files are written to the following locations by default (Windows users
please note that these have changed since previous Zebra versions):

macOS
Presets (local) MacHD/Library/Audio/Presets/u-he/Zebra2/
Presets (user) *YOU*/Library/Audio/Presets/u-he/Zebra2/
Preferences *YOU*/Library/Application Support/u-he/com.u-he.Zebra2...
Themes MacHD/Library/Application Support/u-he/Themes/ (skin folders)
Module presets MacHD/Library/Application Support/u-he/Zebra2/Modules/
Microtuning MacHD/Library/Application Support/u-he/Tunefiles/

Windows
Presets (local) C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\Presets\Zebra2\
Presets (user) C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\UserPresets\Zebra2\
Preferences C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\Support\ (*.txt files)
Themes C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\Support\Themes\
Module presets C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\Modules\
Microtuning C:\Users\*YOU*\Documents\u-he\Zebra2.data\Tunefiles\

Maybe you should uninstall everything and reinstall using the default folder locations.

[ReleaseCandidate]

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory.

No, U-he installed in the 32bit VST directory and linked from all other plugin directories to that one.

That's not the default directory.

I installed and removed the demos (Hive and Diva) yesterday. I do not recall pressing anything but 'next'.

[fmr]

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory.

No, U-he installed in the 32bit VST directory and linked from all other plugin directories to that one.

That's not the default directory.

I installed and removed the demos (Hive and Diva) yesterday. I do not recall pressing anything but 'next'.

Probably the Registry memorized the last used location. Try choose manually a different location when installing. From then on, that location will be used.

[ReleaseCandidate]

First, NO, u-he doesn't install plug-in data in the VST directory.

No, U-he installed in the 32bit VST directory and linked from all other plugin directories to that one.

That's not the default directory.

I installed and removed the demos (Hive and Diva) yesterday. I do not recall pressing anything but 'next'.

Probably the Registry memorized the last used location.

Talking about that, it could be one of U-he's free synths because Zebra and Repro are elsewhere, but I forgot about those.

Nevermind, I'm just proud of myself that I actually did resist the U-he temptation
(buying Plasmonic did help too .

But that's not really about Cubase any more, is it?

[Trensharo]

Treat VST3 the way you'd treat AAX and AU. There is a place for them. Use that place.

Absolutely... Actually, in macOS they are treated that way. They have a place in Library/Audio/Plugins and are always installed in there. Only in Windows is this a problem, mainly because Steinberg started by installing them inside Steinberg\VstPlugIns directory (they should have never do do that).

VST was released in 1996 and VST2 was 1999. This predates Windows XP. That's the Windows 95 and NT 3.5/4 era.

C:\Program Files\Common Files was likely not even a standard Windows directory in many of the systems that VST was initially being used on (Windows 9x systems).

Installing in Steinberg\VstPlugins was logical, especially considering they created the technology and no one else was using it. I don't understand why people have a problem with this VST 2 plug-in installation target.

It's possible that the plug-in directory on macOS is standardized in a non-vendor "marked" location predominantly because:

1. VST was ported over to macOS at a later time.
2. The move from OS 9 to OS X reboot the platform, allowing for this to be changed without disruption. Windows has never had such a reboot. The move from 9x to NT was seamless, as the FS layout of the two OS branches were "largely the same" to maintain compatibility between them.

[Trensharo]

And my favourites: companies that install every plugin they have as a demo and don't let you uninstall these.
No, this does not motivate mé to buy any other plugin from you!

Ah, yes... This really just... pisses me off.

Worse are the plugins/apps with demo content in them which are set to reset to show EVERYTHING whenever you close it and start a new instance.

The plugins, I can hide, but... that is REALLY annoying especially when there is a ton of stuff interspersed between the things you own.

[antic604]

VST3 handling - for some reason one can't change the path for where VST3 are installed (it expects the default C/Program Files/Common/VST3 on PC) so in my case where I keep all VST formats in one custom folder tree I only had access to VST2

That are VST3 specifications & has nothing to do with a certain Sequencer:

Windows 64 Bit: C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3
Windows 32 Bit: C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\VST3
Mac OS X: Library/Audio/Plug-ins/VST3

I know, but in every other DAW I tried - Live, Bitwig, Studio One, Reason, Reaper, Bandlab, FL - one can add a custom folders and VST3 that are there are found & used. Not in Cubase

I have to update this, because it turns out Studio One 5 also expects VST3 to be in default location only. What's worse, neither User Guide or the settings even suggest that custom plugin folders are for VST2, not for VST3! I only noticed it when looking for Reason Rack Plugin, which - along with Surge - are the only two VST3-exclusive plugins I have.

[Psuper]

Most music companies are FAR behind the times when it comes to modern install routines, among other things that have been standard in other arenas for a decade or more. My gaming rigs -- not a single "forced install' location on my system drive, clean and fast as can be. My DAW box, install bits all over the place sys drive just keeps piling up with crap that should be on my apps drive, because I can't bother to fix their lazy shit via symbolic links.

[antic604]

Most music companies are FAR behind the times when it comes to modern install routines, among other things that have been standard in other arenas for a decade or more. My gaming rigs -- not a single "forced install' location on my system drive, clean and fast as can be. My DAW box, install bits all over the place sys drive just keeps piling up with crap that should be on my apps drive, because I can't bother to fix their lazy shit via symbolic links.

Yea, that's pretty disheartening. After I uninstall anything I go hunting for leftover folders and files in usual 5-6 locations (some of them hidden) and I'm yet to encounter a DAW or plugins that uninstalls cleanly