Can anyone with S1 3.x or 4.x help confirming a bug?

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apoclypse wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:09 pmThen you should know how disrespectful and frustrating it is for someone to call you lazy because something doesn't work the way they want it to without knowing the kind of work hours, time and effort it took to develop the application in the first place. Playing arm chair developer, especially when it comes to commercial software doesn't help anyone.
I had lazy moments in my life. I was called lazy. I didn't mind that, because it was true. Leaving easy things undone when the most difficult part is completed IS lazy, because at the end it's little details that decide about perception of how your work is received.

So, how about we call a spade a spade (or whatever the saying in your country) instead of bothering ourselves whether or not it's offensive?

apoclypse wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:09 pmYou also can't seem to understand that some people actually like the way things work or that the developers just have a different perspective about how things should work.
I try. I do my best. I don't know or understand everything. I might also be just plain stupid.

apoclypse wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:09 pmNot sure if serious but if so when you re-transform the track back to an instrument or realtime state, it will keep the changes made in position, cuts etc. Again most freezes don't do that. That's why S1 renders each clip individually. It has to keep track of all that data and still be able to change back to an instrument track when necessary.
Yes, I'm dead serious. The way you phrased it opened my eyes to why it's implemented like that. I'm still unsure I prefer it that way, because e.g. in Bitwig you could choose by either selecting clips or selecting time that included those same clips. In S1 you can sort of do this too, by either using Transform or Mixdown Selection.

I really think this should be mentioned in 'Fundamentals' section of the Reference Manual, as it is somewhat special and unique.

apoclypse wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:09 pmConsidering most DAWs don't do this I guess it doesn't matter does it. S1 is doing what everyone else is doing in this regard and if you think they should change that then get in touch with the developers. No need to rant on banging the drum when nobody here can do anything about it anyway. Considering the only handful of responses (mostly people criticizing your posts) then it look like people don't actually care that much about these issues.
Yes, you're right. My perception of this might be - is - skewed because I'm not really a musican / producer, but rather someone who finds most joy in trying & learning music software, so I naturally tend to compare them and look for ways to "improve" them, at least from my limited perspective.

The fact that a feature works in certain way elsewhere and very few people complain doesn't mean it's perfect and cannot be improved. There was an interview with Ableton devs where they described watching users work in Live on laptops, getting really embarassed to see people awkwardly and clumsily trying to zoom & scroll stuff by dragging the beat bar. So they decided to add touchpad gestures, even though barely anyone asked for them (I did, that's why I left for Bitwig before v10 was released). Likewise, barely anyone on Ableton's beta asked for alias/ghost clips in Live v10, because most people have been using it for years and it never had them, so they had no idea such a thing even exists. But when feature request with proper description of the feature was posted, it landed in top-10 requests (out of hundreds), because people understood what it's for and how it can help them.

So I'm sorry, but I just don't buy an excuse that shared clips should stay the way they are, because Cubase does it like that and other DAWs too :)
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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So, how about we call a spade a spade (or whatever the saying in your country) instead of bothering ourselves whether or not it's offensive?
Do you have access to S1's code? Do you know how much technical debt the applications has accumulated over the years? If the answer is no to both then you have no clue what is a spade and what is something else completely. Some people think that a programmer who had ten minutes could change one thing without realizing that in especially large projects like S1, small changes can literally break major things. I work in the a development house that develops digital archiving software, btw.

I really think this should be mentioned in 'Fundamentals' section of the Reference Manual, as it is somewhat special and unique.
Don't know if it's in the manual or not but it's been covered to death in tutorial videos on S1 since whenever they added the feature.
Yes, you're right. My perception of this might be - is - skewed because I'm not really a musican / producer, but rather someone who finds most joy in trying & learning music software, so I naturally tend to compare them and look for ways to "improve" them, at least from my limited perspective.
As someone who makes music, plays live instruments (guitar, keyboard), owns multiple synths/drummachines/grooveboxes etc I can say that S1 is by far the most intuitive DAW for me. It has been lauded pretty much for it's ease of use and workflow by many. So they are doing something right. It's one of the few DAWs where I never even had to look at the manual. I definitely can't say the same for Logic, Cubase, Live, or Bitwig.

The fact that a feature works in certain way elsewhere and very few people complain doesn't mean it's perfect and cannot be improved. There was an interview with Ableton devs where they described watching users work in Live on laptops, getting really embarassed to see people awkwardly and clumsily trying to zoom & scroll stuff by dragging the beat bar. So they decided to add touchpad gestures, even though barely anyone asked for them (I did, that's why I left for Bitwig before v10 was released). Likewise, barely anyone on Ableton's beta asked for alias/ghost clips in Live v10, because most people have been using it for years and it never had them, so they had no idea such a thing even exists. But when feature request with proper description of the feature was posted, it landed in top-10 requests (out of hundreds), because people understood what it's for and how it can help them.
Whatever developer said that is either clueless or just plain bullshitting. Every major DAW had a way to zoom the view with either a mouse modifier combo or trackpad, except Live. They only added the feature after Bitwig came out. There was no one I knew who used Live that wasn't frustrated by how zoom worked. I'm talking since when I first started using Live back in version 4.

Ghost clips are a different thing altogether. It works exactly like it does in most other DAWs. Live was an outlier when it comes to zoom, S1 is not in this case. So imo your example here makes no sense. How many people are actually asking for this feature other than yourself? Because in your examples there are many people asking for those updates in Live. How many people care how ghost clips work in S1? How many people even use ghost clips to begin with? You ever think there is a reason why they are designed that way in the DAWs that do have ghost clip features? What is that reason? Do you know?
Studio One // Bitwig // Logic Pro // Ableton // Reason // FLStudio // MPC // Force // Maschine

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apoclypse wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:19 pmThe point of Transform is to be able to still edit a clips position in time when the track is "frozen". Each individual clip is bounced down and given a tail if needed. It doesn't freeze a track like other applications (Logic, Live, etc) do. It's not buggy it works as intended. If you don't believe me ask S1.
"Fixed" it to work like I want ;) :D

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What a wonderful DAW!

I start to fear I might like Reaper because I could really make it "my own" :help:
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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No doubt about it, you might really dig it. It's the DAW of choice for people who have decided they enjoy customizing their DAW more than productivity! :D

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oneway wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:35 am No doubt about it, you might really dig it. It's the DAW of choice for people who have decided they enjoy customizing their DAW more than productivity! :D
Sounds like something exactly for me ;) :D
Music tech enthusiast
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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