mDrummer: Can any of BFD, Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, Kontakt libraries be ported over?

[Annabanna]

...which are an entirely separate category as far as law is concerned. With something like a car, the "first sale doctrine" applies and you own the car, and can do whatever you want with it (not all modifications will pass road safety regulations though). You own the car, and can do with it as you please. With a drum library, don't actually own it. You own a permission to use it, that's as far as it goes. So home modifications etc. are entirely irrelevant

This is similar to how you could, for example, root your phone, but then don't be surprised if some software wouldn't work on a rooted phone - including software you paid for. You own your phone and can install DOS on it if you are determined enough, but you don't own the apps on your phone, and thus aren't entitled to do with them as you please.

It's a bit more complicated than that with a Tesla... as it will be with a great many products too new to have had these issues ironed out yet. You can bet each will come with mice typed nonsense rivaling the Scientologists' billion year contract. There are already EULA's that include rights regarding your own DNA, and it will perpetually be the case that the law lags significantly behind the abuses.

You are welcome to live by whichever medieval code you choose.

In the meantime, I will simply find the most efficient way to use the tools I already possess to make music as I always have and not lose a moment's sleep over the equivalent of using a 3rd party universal remote to capture and mimic the button presses on my tv's remote because I choose to use one remote rather than five.

[Burillo]

...which are an entirely separate category as far as law is concerned. With something like a car, the "first sale doctrine" applies and you own the car, and can do whatever you want with it (not all modifications will pass road safety regulations though). You own the car, and can do with it as you please. With a drum library, don't actually own it. You own a permission to use it, that's as far as it goes. So home modifications etc. are entirely irrelevant

This is similar to how you could, for example, root your phone, but then don't be surprised if some software wouldn't work on a rooted phone - including software you paid for. You own your phone and can install DOS on it if you are determined enough, but you don't own the apps on your phone, and thus aren't entitled to do with them as you please.

It's a bit more complicated than that with a Tesla... as it will be with a great many products too new to have had these issues ironed out yet. You can bet each will come with mice typed nonsense rivaling the Scientologists' billion year contract. There are already EULA's that include rights regarding your own DNA, and it will perpetually be the case that the law lags significantly behind the abuses.

You are welcome to live by whichever medieval code you choose.

In the meantime, I will simply find the most efficient way to use the tools I already possess to make music as I always have and not lose a moment's sleep over the equivalent of using a 3rd party universal remote to capture and mimic the button presses on my tv's remote because I choose to use one remote rather than five.

Okay, I can see this conversation being pointless because you keep strawmanning me and don't listen to a word of what I'm saying. Have fun.

[sirmonkey]

Annabanna,
Why not just have MDrummer trigger the other drum VST's ?
Are there functions within MDrummer that can't be done elsewhere?

[Annabanna]

Annabanna,
Why not just have MDrummer trigger the other drum VST's ?
Are there functions within MDrummer that can't be done elsewhere?

I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to wiring the MIDI environment (Logic) such that the mDrummer track passes the MIDI to other tracks where the individual VSTi's reside?

Most (including mDrummer) are simply being used as sample playback modules, so I really just need the multisamples to fire correctly / be able to blend properly between different mics, etc.

The problem without consolidation is the complexity and system draw. In current project, I have 9 drum modules from 5 different developers, and it's just a system killing PITA whereas the exact same samples being triggered more efficiently would be simpler and better in every way.

The univerasal remote analogy is anything but a strawman. It's barely even an abstraction. In fact, I'd say it''s a near 1:1 description of this exact situation. I am currently pressing a bunch of buttons on a bunch of different units (via MIDI) and since that is grossly inefficient, I simply want to consolidate the buttons (and be more efficient with system resources).

While I started with the assumption that at least some of them cannot be trivially consolidated, mDrummer strikes me as the most likely candidate to serve as (the univerasal remote) for any that can.

[mccy]

Most of these formats are "secret", so it's pretty much impossible to import them. You could hypotetically sample them, I thought about making such feature, but it's hard to say how useful that would be and legally it seems kind of a grey area.

Including the ability so sample instruments (perhaps your own personal VA developements within MDrummer) for your personal usage can't be a grey area. TX16WX and discodsp bliss include that allready. Would be nice for drums.

And b.t.w. TX16WX could sample a device, then with my converter "TX2SFZ" you could convert it to SFZ and import it within MSF. Just one step left, to get it in MDrummer.

[sirmonkey]

...
I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to wiring the MIDI environment (Logic) such that the mDrummer track passes the MIDI to other tracks where the individual VSTi's reside?
...

Yes, that's what I meant. But now I get why that's not a solution for you.
Do you always have 9 drum VSTi's going all at once?
Also, what DAW do you have? The reason I ask is that some DAWs let you deactivate tracks when
they're not in use to save on CPU. I have Studio One, which has this feature.
* I've been on a few of the same threads as you, and I thought you might have mentioned what DAW
you have, but I can't quite remember.
Anyway, if your DAW has the feature, this might help, even if it's not optimal.
So, I'm just spitballin' here. Hope you find a solution.

[Annabanna]

...
I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to wiring the MIDI environment (Logic) such that the mDrummer track passes the MIDI to other tracks where the individual VSTi's reside?
...

Yes, that's what I meant. But now I get why that's not a solution for you.
Do you always have 9 drum VSTi's going all at once?
Also, what DAW do you have? The reason I ask is that some DAWs let you deactivate tracks when
they're not in use to save on CPU. I have Studio One, which has this feature.
* I've been on a few of the same threads as you, and I thought you might have mentioned what DAW
you have, but I can't quite remember.
Anyway, if your DAW has the feature, this might help, even if it's not optimal.
So, I'm just spitballin' here. Hope you find a solution.

No, I don't always have that many, but I likely will more and more as I'm moving toward some deeply layered percussion based music that's basically modern pop versions of various styles of Latin and African jazz.

I'm using Logic. I deactivate tracks. I freeze tracks. I have complex routing too, so there's a lot if issues to work out with core balancing, etc. I generally try to push off anything destructive until the last possible moment, though, since I basically have a hybrid writing/production process.

[Annabanna]

Couldn't shake the feeling that I'd come across wav files at some point in the past despite everything said in this thread, so I did some digging.

Sure enough, the older Tunetrack libraries are just straight up folders full of wav files organized by toms, hats, etc. AFAIK, the only issue is the shorthand used to notate where each sample fits into the multisample setup. Still not a trivial task, and not worth doing unless you absolutely knew you wanted to use that particular kit or drum in mDrummer, but looks like setting up a few select multisamples shouldn't be too difficult with a good renaming tool and a bit more familiarity with mDrummer's import options.

There are just things that are far too difficult to do with their interface for which the melda tools are better suited... like chromatic mapping of the multisamples in mSF, or just the better toolkit for processing within mDrummer... plus, of course, the practical matters of efficiency when running so many engines.

Of course, anyone who has ever done any modular home automation, or uses a universal remote instead of one for their tv, one for their blu-ray, one for their stereo, one for their cable box, etc already understands that.

[Nspace]

Have been eyeing these from the distance for long.
Blue Cat's Patchwork and Remote Control

About Patchwork It does say:
"Flexible MIDI routing: connect sub plug-ins together or with the host application.
Flexible Audio routing: connect sub plug-ins i/o to any audio channel.
Parallel processing made easy: up to 8 parallel plug-ins chains, with phase flip, solo and gain controls.
Host up to 8 virtual instruments in parallel and mix them within the plug-in."
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... PatchWork/

And Remote Control
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... teControl/

//Could your quest for the universal remote (or part of it) be doable with them?
The computer would still need to be powerful. The workflow could get interesting...
Possibly MMixing Revolution could step up here more efficiently (having to finally open MGarden to external VSTs, VSTis).

[Annabanna]

Have been eyeing these from the distance for long.
Blue Cat's Patchwork and Remote Control

About Patchwork It does say:
"Flexible MIDI routing: connect sub plug-ins together or with the host application.
Flexible Audio routing: connect sub plug-ins i/o to any audio channel.
Parallel processing made easy: up to 8 parallel plug-ins chains, with phase flip, solo and gain controls.
Host up to 8 virtual instruments in parallel and mix them within the plug-in."
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... PatchWork/

And Remote Control
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... teControl/

//Could your quest for the universal remote (or part of it) be doable with them?
The computer would still need to be powerful. The workflow could get interesting...
Possibly MMixing Revolution could step up here more efficiently (having to finally open MGarden to external VSTs, VSTis).

At first glance, it sounds like it could solve some workflow issues, but the main problem I have at the moment is that my system is choking before even getting into some of the other routing I need to do.

The main reason for trying to convert into mDrummer multisamples is to see if I can just stop running 4 or 5 of these separate engines and replace them with a single multi-out instance of mDrummer to free up system resources for some other intensive processes. I'm trying to get to a fully non-destructive workflow where I create as I go without needing to bounce tracks down, freeze, etc, but I typically have 80+ tracks by the time I'm done, nested sub-busses, etc. so it requires really keeping an eye on system resources.

I'm simultaneously streamlining other processes too like consolidating instances of Kontakt, etc.

Looking into some other things as well like temporary xfer of active libraries to SSD that do disk streaming, etc and watching the per core CPU like a hawk to optimize the routing.

Haven't looked into mMixing Revolution yet.

[Burillo]

you could also use something like ReaMote or the Vienna thing to offload some processing to a different machine.

[Annabanna]

you could also use something like ReaMote or the Vienna thing to offload some processing to a different machine.

Looked into Vienna a while back. I don't have another machine handy. A VERY old macbook, but that's it.

I'm in a bit of a limbo for the time being since I'm on Logic/mac, don't want to invest any more significant chunks of time or money into reworking this system, and plan on transitioning over the next year or so to something else most likely PC or Linux based (another reason for wanting to stuff more of my drum template workflow into melda to make it platform independent rather than organizing by Logic track stacks, MIDI Apple loops, channel strip presets, etc) I'm hoping by the time I've worked out the new system, Bitwig will have implemented robust take comping in which case I'll likely go that route.

Realistically, I have a wish list of all the items I'm trying to accomplish with what I have right now, but well aware I will need to settle on a few of those items. Just trying to make the most of it until I get a new system. Mainly, I have a custom hybrid mix/master plugin I developed for MXXX that I don't want to give up using that requires some complex routing, so that puts stricter limits on system resources for other items.

Looking ahead at the next couple tracks, they're super drum heavy, so need to optimize for that. Will likely be forced to do some bouncing which I can live with. That's all in the need department, though. What I really WANT is to be able to load multisamples into mSF and map them chromatically then use the more robust toolkit for processing them within the module.

[chroma]

Btw, whoever posted that bfdflac paper... thanks, it’s actually a very interesting real life case of adapting a compression algorithm to your model.

I don’t know why you _need_ so many drum libraries, but keep in mind that these are instruments, not samples - they may be primarily sample based, but there is the built-in processing, effects, how the engine cross fades between samples, things like machine gun reduction, etc that may not exactly port over even if you could extract the samples.

Many of these drum libraries are pretty comprehensive - bfd alone has a ton of kits available for it - may be possible instead to reduce the number of instruments you actually use to a smaller number. the same drum in SD3 and BFD may not be exactly the same, but the same drum is probably available in both, and would be hopefully similar enough to make you happy.

also... not a logic user (yet) but drum racks in ableton are pretty convenient for mixing and matching sounds from different drum instruments, maybe something similar there.
Doesn’t logic have autosampler as well? (Wouldn’t be the original samples, but effectively similar... personal use only obviously....)

last, there are a few drum libraries that are wav afaik which you may be able to take advantage of:
- I thought mixosaurus was actually one of these
- ssd 3.5 had raw wav files available for it at one time. That was a pretty large (but pre-processed) drum library.
- there was a large library nskit7 that was multi sampled & wav format

Not many really large ones in wav.. most locked due to piracy afaik....

[Annabanna]

I don’t know why you _need_ so many drum libraries, but keep in mind that these are instruments, not samples - they may be primarily sample based, but there is the built-in processing, effects, how the engine cross fades between samples, things like machine gun reduction, etc that may not exactly port over even if you could extract the samples.

Percussion mainly. Most of the instances aren't kit pieces. Not just talking about Toontrack, BFD, etc here. Several others just for various percussion. It's possible the engines are doing something particularly advanced, but I doubt it in most cases. I could be wrong, but guessing I'm ok in most scenarios so long as I can preserve the basic multisample functions of round robin and blending different mics, it will work for my purposes. I've got mixosaurus but haven't used it in years. Archived on an old drive due to the size since I'm out of internal bays, so I'd have to take a look at it.

[DRMR]

... or Linux based (another reason for wanting to stuff more of my drum template workflow into melda to make it platform independent ...

Realize that there are no Linux builds so you're left with unsupported usage with wine and plugin bridges.
Really a shame since the software seems quite decent. I bet it's mostly the Installer/DRM/Updates that prevents them from releasing on Linux. The DSP and UI would probably be quite easy to port/compile.