One Synth Challenge #143: Any Hardware or Emulation (Taron Wins!)

[Spring Goose]

Liquidsonics Seventh Heaven. is this fair game for this month's challenge?
"The Best M7 Simulation Ever. Simplified.
For years the Bricasti M7 eluded all attempts to capture and reproduce the subtle beauty of this legendary hardware. Many in the industry considered it impossible.

Fusion-IR is a unique modulated convolution-based capture and reproduction technology developed specifically around the needs of M7. It redefines the rules of acoustic and workflow possibilities for convolution based reverberation processors.

Now used around the world, from the smallest mountain-top backpack studios to the biggest post production facilities in London and Los Angeles, Seventh Heaven reverbs are the definitive way to experience the power and beauty of the M7 natively within your DAW.

Nothing comes closer to M7 hardware in your DAW than Seventh Heaven."

Convolution is basically a sample and the contest is themed around actual emulations as opposed to samples.

ok

I mean, that's just my singular opinion. I'm not the arbiter of what is and isn't allowed, so I would ask the person running it if convolution in that style is okay.

Thanks you too. I wouldn't want to be disqualified.

[briefcasemanx]

I am really procrastinating on starting this because I bought a bunch of new synths with all the holiday sales that I want to poke around with.

RE: convolution reverb... it's been used and allowed, you're fine.

How is convolution of a hardware reverb unit different than using a rompler that has say, samples of a minimoog instead of a synthesis engine emulation of a minimoog?

[IV!]

Probably because the effect is emulated, not the sound, and the sampling rules apply to the sounds produced by synthesizers, because this is One SYNTH Challenge) In any case, results similar to IR can be obtained from plugins, and the main thing is that reverberation in principle is not an effect that distorts the sound of the synthesizer beyond recognition, or as it is written in the rules...
This is my singular opinion too)
P.S. I also recently asked about spaces and places IR's in Slack, I was allowed!

[Spring Goose]

I am really procrastinating on starting this because I bought a bunch of new synths with all the holiday sales that I want to poke around with.

RE: convolution reverb... it's been used and allowed, you're fine.

How is convolution of a hardware reverb unit different than using a rompler that has say, samples of a minimoog instead of a synthesis engine emulation of a minimoog?

The thought that came to mind when i replied "ok" was: "if convolution reverb isn't allowed then why isn't convolution reverb mentioned in the rules where it says "effects not allowed"?"

[IV!]

Can anyone recommand free emuation VSTS for this contest? I already know of OBXD and Dexed but any other suggestions welcome.

Dexed/Hexter for DX7
SQ8L for SQ80
Synth1 for Nord Lead 2
OB-Xd for OB-X Series
PG-8X for JX-8P
June-21 for Alpha Juno
PPG Wave by Hermann Seib
Monoklon for Monotron
VL-1 for VL-1
Stylobox/Styrofoam for Stylophone
You can pay attention to these developers:
Digital Systemic (have Kawai-K3, Synclavier and others)
Easy (many rares)
Electrostudio (Analog Pack)
Full Bucket (no comments)
KBrown (more than 60 emulations)
Krakli (have emu of the legendary CS-80)
Kriminal (look at Felix, Krolar SX-2, Omaha and others)
SyncerSoft (have several Soviet synthesizers)
Voltkitchen (2600 and Moog)
You can try to find it here:
KVR of course
VST4FREE
VST4YOU
CJCity (Russian site, large database, search, direct download links)

Bonus: If you find the SX-240 by Spanax custom made for Charis Kappa, you can fly to another dimension and change your idea of VST forever! At the moment, as far as I know, on the Internet it can only be found on Music Society.de

I may not have mentioned everything, and of course I only mentioned Free Synths, but I hope I've described exactly what was put into this month's idea. Good luck to all and a rush of inspiration!

[briefcasemanx]

Probably because the effect is emulated, not the sound, and the sampling rules apply to the sounds produced by synthesizers, because this is One SYNTH Challenge) In any case, results similar to IR can be obtained from plugins, and the main thing is that reverberation in principle is not an effect that distorts the sound of the synthesizer beyond recognition, or as it is written in the rules...
This is my singular opinion too)
P.S. I also recently asked about spaces and places IR's in Slack, I was allowed!

Not an emulation IMO. If it was emulative you could do stuff like change the diffusion, density, modulation, etc, but you cannot change stuff like this on most convolution reverbs (unless they are HUGE in file size from having a bajillion IR's) because convolution is effectively a slightly more complex sample. The convolution algorithm is not attempting to emulate anything inside of the reverb, it's treating it as a black box and accessing input and output. You're not going to be able to adjust stuff with the actual delays and comb filters and whatever else DSP stuff is inside a reverb unit because there is no actual reverb algorithm involved.

I'll let the actual math nerds weigh in but from my (probably limited) understanding, you mayyybe could cheekily define sampling or any sort of digital recording as "convolution" depending on how constant functions fit in. But in the same sort of cheeky way there's probably plenty of arguments for why convolution is emulation.

The thought that came to mind when i replied "ok" was: "if convolution reverb isn't allowed then why isn't convolution reverb mentioned in the rules where it says "effects not allowed"?"

My initial reply was because it says only "hardware emulations" are allowed and convolution isn't an emulation IMO, but convolution and IR's are confirmed to be allowed.

[Spring Goose]

The thought that came to mind when i replied "ok" was: "if convolution reverb isn't allowed then why isn't convolution reverb mentioned in the rules where it says "effects not allowed"?"

My initial reply was because it says only "hardware emulations" are involved and convolution isn't an emulation, but convolution and IR's are confirmed to be allowed.

Sorry i meant the usual monthly rules.

https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/rules

Effects - what is allowed:

Most Native DAW effects may be used (see below for what NOT to use)

Most 3rd party plugin effects are allowed (Again, see below for what NOT to use):
3rd party effects must be easily available freeware: this does not include plug-in betas, demos, magware or freeware that has expired, unless a special exception is made that month.
Check out a list of valid free plugins here

Distortion: Please use distortion / tape saturation / bit crushing sparingly. Use your best judgement. Try to keep the original sound recognizable. Note that this does not apply if the distortion is built in to the synth.

ANY Built-in effects native to the plug-in itself may be used. (So built in chorus / modulation / heavy overdrive / etc is allowed)

Midi plugins are allowed, or sending midi from one Daw to another.

Effects - what is NOT allowed:

Chorus, flanger, phaser, rotary, or related modular effects.

Any type of modulation effect (e.g. chorus, phaser, flanger, rotary etc.). (Please note that effects like reverb or delays that perform modulation to achieve their sound are ALLOWED, but the modulation usage must be minimal.)

Tapestops, Granular delays, pitching, or related sampling effects.

Effects that pitch the sound (e.g. pitched / granular delays, tapestops etc.

Turning up the effect too much where it transforms the nature of the synth (Heavy overdrive / distortion, etc)

Any effect that transforms the sound to make them unrecognizable as being from the synth (Overdrive, heavy distortion, bit crushing, or related). Never go full 11

[Spring Goose]

I think Seventh Heaven isn't just convolution.

Seventh Heaven is: "Fusion-IR is a unique modulated convolution-based capture and reproduction technology developed specifically around the needs of M7. It redefines the rules of acoustic and workflow possibilities for convolution based reverberation processors."

I think it does sound like they are describing an emulation:
"The Best M7 Simulation Ever. Simplified.
For years the Bricasti M7 eluded all attempts to capture and reproduce the subtle beauty of this legendary hardware. Many in the industry considered it impossible. ...

Nothing comes closer to M7 hardware in your DAW than Seventh Heaven."

[IV!]

Not an emulation IMO.

I'm sorry, I just wrote "emulated" instead of "sampled", but your detailed answer with theoretical approximations struck me! In any case, I wanted to say that IR affects the process of permitted sound processing, not its creation, although guitar cabinets IR's are a "gray area"for me...

[briefcasemanx]

I think Seventh Heaven isn't just convolution.

Seventh Heaven is: "Fusion-IR is a unique modulated convolution-based capture and reproduction technology developed specifically around the needs of M7. It redefines the rules of acoustic and workflow possibilities for convolution based reverberation processors."

I think it does sound like they are describing an emulation:
"The Best M7 Simulation Ever. Simplified.
For years the Bricasti M7 eluded all attempts to capture and reproduce the subtle beauty of this legendary hardware. Many in the industry considered it impossible. ...

Nothing comes closer to M7 hardware in your DAW than Seventh Heaven."

If they're going beyond normal convolutions then who knows how to define it. Only the developers, i guess. In any case convolution stuff is allowed so there's not even a question.

How would you rate the Seventh Heaven plugin, btw?

[Spring Goose]

I think Seventh Heaven isn't just convolution.

Seventh Heaven is: "Fusion-IR is a unique modulated convolution-based capture and reproduction technology developed specifically around the needs of M7. It redefines the rules of acoustic and workflow possibilities for convolution based reverberation processors."

I think it does sound like they are describing an emulation:
"The Best M7 Simulation Ever. Simplified.
For years the Bricasti M7 eluded all attempts to capture and reproduce the subtle beauty of this legendary hardware. Many in the industry considered it impossible. ...

Nothing comes closer to M7 hardware in your DAW than Seventh Heaven."

If they're going beyond normal convolutions then who knows how to define it. Only the developers, i guess. In any case convolution stuff is allowed so there's not even a question.

How would you rate the Seventh Heaven plugin, btw?

Ok thanks.

I haven't tried Seventh Heaven yet. It's ilok dongle or cloud only, so i'm waiting to receive my dongle. I bought Seventh Heaven blind at black friday. In words it sounds exactly something i will like.

When i get my dongle i'll be able to throw in my (Softube) Mutronics Mutator (filter) too, hopefully.

I'm wondering about Soundtoys Echoboy. I think some of the echo types are based upon a hardware, i'll have to read about it.

I don't have any of my ilok plugs installed atm because my computer could break at any moment, that's why i went dongle.

[Spring Goose]

Soundtoys Echoboy

"Vintage Tone

We dug deep into our collection of vintage gear to find the essence of our favorite echo boxes, and we channeled it into EchoBoy. You’ll find an echo tone that fits your mix easily by choosing one of the 30 built-in styles modeled on vintage gear. Get instant access to a whole range of classic echo box tones, including EchoPlex, Space Echo, Memory Man, DM-2, and the TelRay oil can delay.

EchoBoy’s chorus even emulates the CE-1 chorus, considered a holy-grail of guitar chorus pedals. We’ve also modeled other gear to give you a range of sounds that goes beyond standard delay stompboxes. If you want warm, smooth saturation, try the “Studio Tape” style, inspired by our Ampex ATR-102 half-inch two-track machine. And yes, turn it up! EchoBoy sounds great when pushed hard, just like the best analog gear."


What does anyone say about this? I think it's allowed as per Diva allowed.

[Spring Goose]

Also D16 Repeater, similar of Echoboy.

"All-in-one
Built-in 23 delay models ranging from classic oil cans and plates to the most famous vintage digital designs."

"Introducing Repeater - A dual delay powerhouse that features 23 unique authentically modeled delay units ranging from classic oil cans and plates to the most famous vintage digital designs:

Cassette Tape - A model of an early 80's Japanese cassette tape deck. We'd call this one mid-fi

Coopy Cube - An early 70's delay originally made from a garden hose! Great for short delays to add depth, also with stereo Spread option.

Digital 42 - One of the most famous modern digital delays, this one has a uniquely early digital tone with a touch of graininess and a slight scoop. Great for guitars and vocals.

Digital 42 x 2 - The double option on the Digital 42, it halves the sample rate for an extremely unique lo-fi tone that is great on vocals, guitars, and drums.

Digital Delay - A hi resolution digital delay. Use Repeater’s filters and Color to customize the tone.

DM-2 - An early bucket brigade analog delay with a warm and rich tone. Amazing on guitars and synths.

Mellow Delay - A smooth, subdued delay that is based on several vintage analog topologies.

Memory Guy - Lush analog delay with fat vintage tone.

Mirky Delay - Based on early bucket brigade analog delays, it is dark and thick. Great as a special effect delay or thickener when used with the Spread option.

New Radio - Delay tone with FM radio style scooped hi-fi tone. Try it on vocals.

Old Radio - Delay tone with AM radio style grainy lo-fi tone.

Pitchy Delays - (3 models) - Delays with slight pitch modulations for extremely spatial and deep effects. Sounds great when both delay lines are set to the same time creating a chorusing mono effect. These can also be used with tight delays with Spread option for widening and thickening effects.

Plexy Echo - Based on an old 70s tape delay unit. It’s fat tone, which sounds great on vocals guitars and even drums.

Space Delay - Based on the famous magnetic tape delay with warm and gritty tone. A classic on guitars.

Tape Delay Ancient - An extremely old 1940's style tape delay tone.

Tape Delay Classic - Early 60's style tape delay.

Tape Delay Modern - Hi-fi tape delay with warm and lush tone.

Tape Delay Vintage - 70's style tape tone, slightly grainy but warm.

Telephone 1 - Lo-fi telephone tone, great for special effects or used as an insert on vocal or even full mix.

Telephone 2 - Another lo-fi telephone tone with slightly different frequency and distortion tone.

TelRay - The analog delay classic made original from a tuna can. Beautifully lo-fi with a rich tone that is perfect for guitars."

[Spring Goose]

sorry for spamming this thread

What about PSP 84?

"The general idea of the Lexicon PSP 42 inspired us to design its big brother the PSP 84 plug-in "

I don't have 42 i went for 84 although Repeater does 42 (see above)

[PleaseAdvise]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Lots of toys to play with.