Have Modern VST Instruments Replaced Your Hardware Synths ?

[whyterabbyt]

Just for fun, I pulled up RePro and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, Repro doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound. No sub oscillator and no way to assign aftertouch to LFO amount were the features missing. So, while y’all are exalting software instruments for their superior functionality, in this simple case, software fails.

So you were expecting an emulation of an early 80s synth to have all the features of a 2020 synth that was pretty much specifically designed on the basis of extending the feature set beyond that 80s synth?

Because you seem to have missed something kinda obvious.

[toonertik]

Just for fun, I pulled up RePro and tried to replicate the first factory (though tweaked) preset on my Prophet 6. There’s no way to do it. Sound aside, Repro doesn’t have the features and flexibility to achieve this pretty simple sound.

is Repro an emulation of the Prophet 6?

It's an emulation of the Prophet 5...

it was a rhetorical question.... but, FYI, its 1 and 5, depending on which one you use (he didn't say)

Played together..
1 and 5 make 6

[ReleaseCandidate]

Btw. when I was younger (yes, quite some time ago) I had a B1, that _really_ hasn't been emulated by any softsynth until today!

[Nleif]

I have expert sleepers in my eurorack setup so often times I find myself A/B testing oscillators from software to the analog vcos in my modular. The software oscillators don't sound bad but I've never gotten them to sound anywhere close to as excellent as my analog vcos sound.

I'm a synthesist first so when I say I would love it 100% if my digital oscillators sounded as good as my analog ones I mean it. But they don't... And digital filters to me sound like aggressive digital eqs and not in a flattering way.

Envelopes and lfos? I much prefer the control of digital generators and they don't mess with the sound because they are just controlling the analog amps so to me that is where it's at. Digital lfos and envelopes, analog sound sources, amps and filtering.

[zerocrossing]

I also think that your taste in sound sucks and that you are incapable of appreciating good sound

Well, what is good sound?

Oh, that’s easy. It’s sounds that one likes.

Well, what I do is to distill things down to a handful of important sound types. This way I’m not chasing features, though features can also be important. For instance, Diva, great as it is, does not have a third EG. I’ll do basic tests that involve filter FM, resonance, cross mod, oscillator sync and the like.

Yes, for more experimental stuff I would use something like Tal Mod with all its modulation options.

I don’t own TAL Mod, but I must admit that I think their TAL Sampler is great, as is their Juno 60 emulation (but I don’t own the latter). I’m listening to demos of the presets now and it sounds great, but not sell off my hardware great. It’s a pretty type of sound, and I can see why a lot of people like it, but a lot of what I do requires sounds that are more similar to what I posted from the ATC-X. It definitely seems worth $60, though, and I could see myself picking it up at some point, especially if he makes it MPE like he did with Jupiter 8.

[zerocrossing]

Here’s an anecdote that this thread made me think of. At one point, a new synth company named Modal released a synth called the 002. The first demo blew me away. The sound was just gorgeous. $4500, though. Ouch. Over time, people who bought it complained about issues. Software bugs and design flaws... like the fact that every time you play a note, it’s hard panned from one of the two audio outputs. (Super stupid) I put it out of my mind. For $4500, you’d better provide a synth that’s nearly bug free and has no obvious design flaws.

Every now and then someone would post a new demo and like a moth to a flame, I always checked it out. I could not stop myself. Every time I thought, “wow... but $4500.” It haunted me. I had a friend who owned one make a preset that didn’t use any of it’s exotic waveforms, just to see if I could get close with software. I spent a lot of time failing, but I almost nailed it with with Diversion. The problem was, to get it to sound super close, I had to crank the anti-aliasing up to a point were I was only able to get a voice or two out of it before I got buffer overruns. So... almost success. Still... $4500. Ooof.

Then one day, a guy reached out to me. He wanted to trade his 002r for a 002 keyboard. He gave me a very fair price... though it made it the most expensive instrument I’d ever purchased by quite a lot. $2000. But that is about what I usually spend on music stuff in a year... so that year, I went for it. No regrets. That thing sounds f’n amazing. Many people don’t like it at all, but man, it scratches some itch like nothing else I have in software or hardware. Of course, if that had never happened, I’d happily be making music using whatever, but I feel super lucky to have it and it has nothing to do with the look or feel of it, as it’s a horrible interface and it’s under my desk in a rack next to the ATC, so I don’t even see it. I edit it with the software editor and to me it’s like a VST... but the best sounding VST I have.

[Cro-magnon]

Yes, I don't own any hardware at this point

I love hardware but their marketing seems accurately formulated to maximize their revenues vs my enjoyment. There is always something missing that can only be alleviated by throwing more money. + I don't do vintage.

I went through a few items over the last year or so but they never lasted. Still looking though. Jupiter XM is a contender but my senses are telling me this is a big risk.

Not looking at having anything exact but rather stuff that sounds great is what I am going for now.

I couldn't agree more that the hardware is OVERpriced,but as is software.Isn't $350 for a virtual EQ or compressor or synth too much,for you?One famous developer on KVR admitted himself one week or two ago that software is more lucrative than hardware.

Regarding the Jupiter XM you're interested in,it is just a plugin in a box.Don't look that for an improvement in sound but in playability.Personally I only spend money on analog or hybrid hardware.

[e-crooner]

Never heard of Modal before, but it sure looks like a quality instrument:

https://www.modalelectronics.com/00-series/

[vurt]

i just did a test.
played with some hardware, then played with some software.
then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff.

had a f**king blast
stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

[EnGee]

i just did a test.
played with some hardware, then played with some software.
then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff.

had a f**king blast
stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

If you like hardware (cheap or expensive), go for it. If you want to stay only software, bravo! I mean it seems all personal taste for me!

Personally, I won't buy expensive hardware these days. If I'm wealthy, then maybe. Do I need them now? No! Do software sounds great these days? Yes! Do I like hardware? It depends, some I like and some I don't like! Do I care of these minimal differences between hardware and software? No!

So, it is all depends on many factors really! For now, I'm happy between the digital Yamaha MODX and the great software like Massive X, Bazille, Reaktor. With emulations like RePro and The Legend and the great modular Blocks, I don't have any desire to purchase analogue synth (cheap or expensive). I can live with some aliasing

[BONES]

So, while y’all are exalting software instruments for their superior functionality, in this simple case, software fails.

Probably why I'd rather use ArcSyn than RePro. So how will your Prophet 6 go at replicating the "384 Saws" patch in ArcSyn, do you think? And not just that, but playing a four note chord with each hand, whilst simultaneously providing a bassline, a percussive rhythm track, a glitchy rhythmic track and a searing lead (via extra instances of the same instrument)? Or a patch from Pigments that uses both the granular engine and a wavefolded wavetable with modulation of the phase and wavetable position, each using a different envelope? Because that's the thing, RePro 5 is just one of the dozens of synths I can run effortlessly. I don't need to make specific comparisons in order to have a tiny, meaningless win, I can offer you a million scenarios where software wins easily without even having to think about it.

If I add up the cost of my laptop, my I/O device, my studio monitors, my KeyStep (controller) and the price of my host software, it is barely half the price of your Prophet 6, i.e. probably less than $1,500, yet offers infinitely greater possibilities in so many areas. Even simple things like the ability to work on music while sitting in a plane, bus or train.

Could Urs add it and not blow up CPU usage? Probably not.

What are you talking about? RePro isn't too bad compared to synths like Knifonium and I can run 3 or 4 instances of that before my laptop CPU hits 50%. So I reckon Urs could double CPU usage for RePro and it would still be easy enough to run multiple instances in the context of a full arrangement.

At one point, a new synth company named Modal released a synth called the 002. The first demo blew me away. The sound was just gorgeous. $4500, though. Ouch. ...
… Every now and then someone would post a new demo and like a moth to a flame, I always checked it out. I could not stop myself. Every time I thought, “wow... but $4500.” It haunted me.

I was the same with Analog Keys/Four - the sound demos were incredible but it was way more money than I wanted to spend. Then one day I saw one for sale on eBay for less than half what a new one costs here so I bought it, thinking it would be the most amazing thing ever. Turns out it is quite nice but offers absolutely nothing over any of the VSTi I use regularly. For the year I spent finishing our last album, it lived at my bandmate's place but I got it back around the middle of last year, bought a little folding table thing I could use as a stand for it and connected it up to my system. Since then I have turned it on exactly twice and each time I've wondered what it was I heard in it that made me go to so much effort and expense to acquire one. At least Uno was cheap and is a bit of fun to play around with. Even Ultranova is better - it has a massive sound, more voices than I'll ever need and is actually easier to work with. It also only cost me around $250 in as-new condition. Spending a grand on AK was a really stupid, spur of the moment decision that has taught me a valuable lesson. Of course, compared to the more than $5,000 I spent on a fully loaded Trinity, it is a drop in the bucket but that was 20-odd years ago and the world has changed a lot since then, as have I.

That thing sounds f’n amazing. Many people don’t like it at all, but man, it scratches some itch like nothing else I have in software or hardware.

I was the same about Orion's Wasp and now I have discovered that the $29 JP6K can do the same sort of thing to a similar standard, plus some other stuff I like a lot, it's my "new Wasp". It's nice to have cheap tastes sometimes. Actually, it's nice to have cheap tastes all the time, and I definitely have cheap tastes in pretty much everything. If a Whopper with cheese cost the same as a gourmet meal at a restaurant, I'd still rather have the Whopper.

I edit it with the software editor and to me it’s like a VST... but the best sounding VST I have.

Even that doesn't make me like AK any more, although it does make it infinitely easier to work with.

[BONES]

i just did a test. played with some hardware, then played with some software. then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff. had a f**king blast stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

Funny, I did the same thing the other night, or at least I tried to. Instead I spent two hours trying to chase down a persistent mains hum from somewhere or other, then got the shits and went to bed. Tomorrow I will go and spend $50 on a hum remover, which will hopefully fix the problem. f**k hardware!

[vurt]

i just did a test. played with some hardware, then played with some software. then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff. had a f**king blast stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

Funny, I did the same thing the other night, or at least I tried to. Instead I spent two hours trying to chase down a persistent mains hum from somewhere or other, then got the shits and went to bed. Tomorrow I will go and spend $50 on a hum remover, which will hopefully fix the problem. f**k hardware!

eat more fibre.

[revvy]

i just did a test. played with some hardware, then played with some software. then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff. had a f**king blast stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

Funny, I did the same thing the other night, or at least I tried to. Instead I spent two hours trying to chase down a persistent mains hum from somewhere or other, then got the shits and went to bed. Tomorrow I will go and spend $50 on a hum remover, which will hopefully fix the problem. f**k hardware!

eat more fibre.

I personally go to the loo when I get the shits, not my bed. YMMV, as they say.

[vurt]

i just did a test. played with some hardware, then played with some software. then played a combination,of those with some acoustic stuff. had a f**king blast stop arguing and play you bunch of wipples ticklers.

Funny, I did the same thing the other night, or at least I tried to. Instead I spent two hours trying to chase down a persistent mains hum from somewhere or other, then got the shits and went to bed. Tomorrow I will go and spend $50 on a hum remover, which will hopefully fix the problem. f**k hardware!

eat more fibre.

I personally go to the loo when I get the shits, not my bed. YMMV, as they say.

he lives on a boat.
they do things differently to us "landlubbers"