Massive X 1.6.1 update (September 2025)!

[chk071]

I can't stand using a mouse for sound design.

Which controller are you using that you can assign so many parameters to? Even with a controller with a gazillion of knobs and sliders, you won't be able to control everything.

I get the criticism about the amount of automatable parameters, but, using a soft synth without mouse is mission impossible.

[chk071]

But still, I also hope they reconsider their design of not exposing the main synth parameters to host automation/control. But we've whined enough about that I suppose.

We'll have whined about it enough when they change it!

I'm surprised about the insistence. I probably would just use another synth, and call it a day.

You must really care about this synth.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I can't stand using a mouse for sound design.

Which controller are you using that you can assign so many parameters to? Even with a controller with a gazillion of knobs and sliders, you won't be able to control everything.

I get the criticism about the amount of automatable parameters, but, using a soft synth without mouse is mission impossible.

Not when combined with a touch screen. For vintage style synths, modelled after classics, or any synths with a reasonable amount of parameters (even something like Sylenth1), I use a Novation Remote SL with automap. It's still the best hardware mapping solution. 8 sliders, 16 knobs and2 4 buttons. I actually have a Novation Zero SL mkII sitting above my Novation SL61 mkI, so I have twice that number of controls at once. Then I also have a Push beside my screen, so sometimes I use a combination of a touch screen compatible plugin with some quick controls mapped to Push knobs right beside it. This is my preference for more complex synths that are touch friendly like Pigments, Vital, Equator, and samplers like Tal Sampler or Bitwig Sampler. I also have a Microsoft Surface Dial (with Elephant software), which lets me control any parameter I touch on my touch screen. This is great for complex plugins that aren't multi-touch but work ok with touch screen (but often have a slight delay and are difficult for fine adjustments). So I'd do big adjustments on screen but finer ones with the dial. Things like the older NI plugins or Tone2 Icarus, Omnisphere. So I have something for all the plugins, depending on the complexity/design and touch friendliness.

Unfortunately Massive X doesn't work with most of this because only the macros are automatable (which is required for Novation automap and Push mapping), doesn't work at all with touch screens because it has some crazy acceleration, so it's worse than older NI plugins like FM8. So both primary ways I use for tweaking synths are impossible on Massive X. Using the mouse just feels like work to me.

[Echoes in the Attic]

But still, I also hope they reconsider their design of not exposing the main synth parameters to host automation/control. But we've whined enough about that I suppose.

We'll have whined about it enough when they change it!

I'm surprised about the insistence. I probably would just use another synth, and call it a day.

You must really care about this synth.

Well Massive X is a pretty powerful synth and sounds great, so naturally we want to use it, but we also don't want to be annoyed by things crippled in MX that aren't crippled in other synths.

[Dalle]

Beautiful sounding synth, hopefully one day they’ll release an update that doesn’t make my computer crap its pants when he gui is open. And the lack of automation really is baffling.

[chk071]

I can't stand using a mouse for sound design.

Which controller are you using that you can assign so many parameters to? Even with a controller with a gazillion of knobs and sliders, you won't be able to control everything.

I get the criticism about the amount of automatable parameters, but, using a soft synth without mouse is mission impossible.

Not when combined with a touch screen. For vintage style synths, modelled after classics, or any synths with a reasonable amount of parameters (even something like Sylenth1), I use a Novation Remote SL with automap. It's still the best hardware mapping solution. 8 sliders, 16 knobs and2 4 buttons. I actually have a Novation Zero SL mkII sitting above my Novation SL61 mkI, so I have twice that number of controls at once. Then I also have a Push beside my screen, so sometimes I use a combination of a touch screen compatible plugin with some quick controls mapped to Push knobs right beside it. This is my preference for more complex synths that are touch friendly like Pigments, Vital, Equator, and samplers like Tal Sampler or Bitwig Sampler. I also have a Microsoft Surface Dial (with Elephant software), which lets me control any parameter I touch on my touch screen. This is great for complex plugins that aren't multi-touch but work ok with touch screen (but often have a slight delay and are difficult for fine adjustments). So I'd do big adjustments on screen but finer ones with the dial. Things like the older NI plugins or Tone2 Icarus, Omnisphere. So I have something for all the plugins, depending on the complexity/design and touch friendliness.

Fair enough, if you want to spend that amount of work to learn so many parameters. What you do with your touchscreen and your Surface Dial is just another way of doing what you'd normally do with your mouse though. And, at some point, you have to work with the mouse in your DAW anyway.

I tried what you did with your Zero SL as well, mapping several pages of parameters with Automap with my Impulse 49. I gave up on it. Every synth has different important parameter, so I ended up with profils which are different on every snyht, and totally lost overview when there's more than one or 2 pages.

To each his own, of course. I always liked the idea of mapping as many of my plugin's parameters as possible, but, in the end, it was more frustration than real joy for me.

[pdxindy]

But still, I also hope they reconsider their design of not exposing the main synth parameters to host automation/control. But we've whined enough about that I suppose.

We'll have whined about it enough when they change it!

I'm surprised about the insistence. I probably would just use another synth, and call it a day.

You must really care about this synth.

I do just use another synth(s).

Regarding MX, it is part of Komplete and so I'm stuck with it.

I like the sound and DSP structure of MX... I would like to use it. I don't like its many limitations and poor implementations.

The original Massive supported PolyAT... MX doesn't.
MX doesn't have MSEG's - The Performers are more like sequencers and are not per voice.
The LFO's are poorly designed and not very capable. (See Vital for something 100x better)
The browser is awful... truly awful
Bitwig's modulation system is not practical cause MX cannot automate parameters directly... only through the macros which is super clumsy.
MX holds the pitchbend value until the next note is played and then you hear a pitch jump on that following note. So even using multiple instances to do MPE, it doesn't work well.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I can't stand using a mouse for sound design.

Which controller are you using that you can assign so many parameters to? Even with a controller with a gazillion of knobs and sliders, you won't be able to control everything.

I get the criticism about the amount of automatable parameters, but, using a soft synth without mouse is mission impossible.

Not when combined with a touch screen. For vintage style synths, modelled after classics, or any synths with a reasonable amount of parameters (even something like Sylenth1), I use a Novation Remote SL with automap. It's still the best hardware mapping solution. 8 sliders, 16 knobs and2 4 buttons. I actually have a Novation Zero SL mkII sitting above my Novation SL61 mkI, so I have twice that number of controls at once. Then I also have a Push beside my screen, so sometimes I use a combination of a touch screen compatible plugin with some quick controls mapped to Push knobs right beside it. This is my preference for more complex synths that are touch friendly like Pigments, Vital, Equator, and samplers like Tal Sampler or Bitwig Sampler. I also have a Microsoft Surface Dial (with Elephant software), which lets me control any parameter I touch on my touch screen. This is great for complex plugins that aren't multi-touch but work ok with touch screen (but often have a slight delay and are difficult for fine adjustments). So I'd do big adjustments on screen but finer ones with the dial. Things like the older NI plugins or Tone2 Icarus, Omnisphere. So I have something for all the plugins, depending on the complexity/design and touch friendliness.

Fair enough, if you want to spend that amount of work to learn so many parameters. What you do with your touchscreen and your Surface Dial is just another way of doing what you'd normally do with your mouse though. And, at some point, you have to work with the mouse in your DAW anyway.

I tried what you did with your Zero SL as well, mapping several pages of parameters with Automap with my Impulse 49. I gave up on it. Every synth has different important parameter, so I ended up with profils which are different on every synth, and totally lost overview when there's more than one or 2 pages.

To each his own, of course. I always liked the idea of mapping as many of my plugin's parameters as possible, but, in the end, it was more frustration than real joy for me.

I can understand that and I've been there as well with some synths, which is why I mostly use it for those that are more the analog vintage type layouts, because I end up with pretty similar layouts, like the envelopes in similar places etc. It's not much work to make layouts for these. But the touch screen has been amazing for more complex synths, especially when they use a recent version of Juce that is multi-touch. And the surface dial feels much different to using the mouse. I always hated having to hold the mouse down and drag up or down while playing notes, it just feels wrong and not at all like using hardware. Touching a screen and using the surface dial is a much more similar feeling actually.

And since I use Bitwig I actually don't need the mouse too much there either since it's good with touch also.

[chk071]

But still, I also hope they reconsider their design of not exposing the main synth parameters to host automation/control. But we've whined enough about that I suppose.

We'll have whined about it enough when they change it!

I'm surprised about the insistence. I probably would just use another synth, and call it a day.

You must really care about this synth.

I do just use another synth(s).

Regarding MX, it is part of Komplete and so I'm stuck with it.

I like the sound and DSP structure of MX... I would like to use it. I don't like its many limitations and poor implementations.

The original Massive supported PolyAT... MX doesn't.
MX doesn't have MSEG's - The Performers are more like sequencers and are not per voice.
The LFO's are poorly designed and not very capable. (See Vital for something 100x better)
The browser is awful... truly awful
Bitwig's modulation system is not practical cause MX cannot automate parameters directly... only through the macros which is super clumsy.
MX holds the pitchbend value until the next note is played and then you hear a pitch jump on that following note. So even using multiple instances to do MPE, it doesn't work well.

As so many (for you) shortcomings are unlikely to be "fixed", in your position, I'd definitely use something else, and not look back. Because, if it's that flawed to you, it's unrealistic to hope that all that will be changed.

[chk071]

I can't stand using a mouse for sound design.

Which controller are you using that you can assign so many parameters to? Even with a controller with a gazillion of knobs and sliders, you won't be able to control everything.

I get the criticism about the amount of automatable parameters, but, using a soft synth without mouse is mission impossible.

Not when combined with a touch screen. For vintage style synths, modelled after classics, or any synths with a reasonable amount of parameters (even something like Sylenth1), I use a Novation Remote SL with automap. It's still the best hardware mapping solution. 8 sliders, 16 knobs and2 4 buttons. I actually have a Novation Zero SL mkII sitting above my Novation SL61 mkI, so I have twice that number of controls at once. Then I also have a Push beside my screen, so sometimes I use a combination of a touch screen compatible plugin with some quick controls mapped to Push knobs right beside it. This is my preference for more complex synths that are touch friendly like Pigments, Vital, Equator, and samplers like Tal Sampler or Bitwig Sampler. I also have a Microsoft Surface Dial (with Elephant software), which lets me control any parameter I touch on my touch screen. This is great for complex plugins that aren't multi-touch but work ok with touch screen (but often have a slight delay and are difficult for fine adjustments). So I'd do big adjustments on screen but finer ones with the dial. Things like the older NI plugins or Tone2 Icarus, Omnisphere. So I have something for all the plugins, depending on the complexity/design and touch friendliness.

Fair enough, if you want to spend that amount of work to learn so many parameters. What you do with your touchscreen and your Surface Dial is just another way of doing what you'd normally do with your mouse though. And, at some point, you have to work with the mouse in your DAW anyway.

I tried what you did with your Zero SL as well, mapping several pages of parameters with Automap with my Impulse 49. I gave up on it. Every synth has different important parameter, so I ended up with profils which are different on every synth, and totally lost overview when there's more than one or 2 pages.

To each his own, of course. I always liked the idea of mapping as many of my plugin's parameters as possible, but, in the end, it was more frustration than real joy for me.

I can understand that and I've been there as well with some synths, which is why I mostly use it for those that are more the analog vintage type layouts, because I end up with pretty similar layouts, like the envelopes in similar places etc. It's not much work to make layouts for these. But the touch screen has been amazing for more complex synths, especially when they use a recent version of Juce that is multi-touch. And the surface dial feels much different to using the mouse. I always hated having to hold the mouse down and drag up or down while playing notes, it just feels wrong and not at all like using hardware. Touching a screen and using the surface dial is a much more similar feeling actually.

And since I use Bitwig I actually don't need the mouse too much there either since it's good with touch also.

Fair enough. I always thought the Roland System-8 or System-1 would do for a good controller for soft synths with a more simple layout. Can't control all of it with that as well though.

The desire of controlling software physically is definitely there here, it's just that I never felt my controllers were really feasible for that.

[pdxindy]

As so many (for you) shortcomings are unlikely to be "fixed", in your position, I'd definitely use something else, and not look back. Because, if it's that flawed to you, it's unrealistic to hope that all that will be changed.

I don't have hope that any of it will change. It has been over a year and a half since MX was released and nothing much has happened. NI did advertise that MX was designed to evolve, but maybe they mean on a geological scale.

I've a few presets I made using the Comb filter which I like to use... besides that I don't do any sound design in MX.

[chk071]

I have 2 major feature requests, and those are wavetable import and to have all parameters available for automation in the DAW. I'm quite optimistic that either one or both will be implemented at some point.

[vertibration]

Dont be optimistic about wavetable import, never gunna happen

[chk071]

It's the one that I consider less likely. But, who knows?

[Digivolt]

Is there a way to redirect where presets are found ?

I have a expansion installed on my D: drive with everything else NI related but I can only access the presets when it's on C:

Seems like a downgrade on Massive if you can't even select where to find presets