Hive 2 Shape Sequencer
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- KVRAF
- 1562 posts since 31 Dec, 2020
Could someone point me to a proper explanation of how to use this because I don't get anything happening at all. The manual is useless. Thanks.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
You need to assign it to something as a modulation source, then draw the shape
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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The Nerdy Music Guy The Nerdy Music Guy https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=475847 - KVRist
- 172 posts since 7 Oct, 2020
Maybe a very simple example patch would help?
Here is a simple patch that just uses Shape Seq A for the volume and Shape Seq B for the filter, to demonstrate how the different "lanes" work together.
Here is a simple patch that just uses Shape Seq A for the volume and Shape Seq B for the filter, to demonstrate how the different "lanes" work together.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1562 posts since 31 Dec, 2020
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- KVRAF
- 2296 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London
What exactly is "useless" about the manual? The Shape Sequencer is covered quite comprehensively over 3 pages, including a matrix diagram to help explain the segment modulation, which is one of the more challenging concepts to understand.
Always Read the Manual!
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- u-he
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
My impression is that the Shape Sequencer, while not being an entirely novel idea, is so concentrated and bold in its concepts and functionality, people don't see the trees for the woods. Similar concepts are usually designed for a specific purpose (trance gates, evolving envelopes) which they clearly communicate. But the ShapeSeq at first glance looks too simple or too limited or too abstract to do this or that, so people may wonder what it's really "for". The gist is, it isn't intended for anything in particular. It's more LFOs, more envelopes, pattern generators, ModMapper, source of uncertainty, per-voice-modulator and much more.
The point of it is being economic, yet powerful. It doesn't scream "use me" because it doesn't imply a specific function that is significant to Hive's character. Meaning, if a synth has a trance gate, people use the trance gate often and it shapes how the synth is perceived. That again makes the trance gate easy to understand, as the effect is obvious.
I'm not sure if we did that in our videos or user manual, but I guess it would be good to explain the ShapeSeq by some common use cases ("this is how you use it as an envelope" etc.).
The point of it is being economic, yet powerful. It doesn't scream "use me" because it doesn't imply a specific function that is significant to Hive's character. Meaning, if a synth has a trance gate, people use the trance gate often and it shapes how the synth is perceived. That again makes the trance gate easy to understand, as the effect is obvious.
I'm not sure if we did that in our videos or user manual, but I guess it would be good to explain the ShapeSeq by some common use cases ("this is how you use it as an envelope" etc.).
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- KVRAF
- 4197 posts since 23 May, 2004 from Bad Vilbel, Germany
You're welcome!
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
When I think of the Shape Sequencer, it seems to be indended for the more or less same uses as MSEGs or steppers in synths like Dune3 or Spire, of drawable LFOs in Serum. At least that's how I use it, I think typical applicaitons for these must be well known for people coming form these synths, or other synths having the same kinds of modulators.
Function generators seems something a bit more obscure. It's great that in Hive you can visualize the modulator's output in the hexagon and this helps to understand what is going on, but I still can't say I actually understand for what (not how, but for what) the function generators are intended to be used. I've made few presets using function generators, but when I was making them I thought "it will be the preset that uses a function generator because the synth has one and it must be used somewhere" rather than "I want this preset to sound like this or that and therefore I will use a function generator"
I gather the function generators are based on some concepts known for modular synth users, but I guess more people who use Hive come from other wavetable/subtractive synths than from modulars.
Function generators seems something a bit more obscure. It's great that in Hive you can visualize the modulator's output in the hexagon and this helps to understand what is going on, but I still can't say I actually understand for what (not how, but for what) the function generators are intended to be used. I've made few presets using function generators, but when I was making them I thought "it will be the preset that uses a function generator because the synth has one and it must be used somewhere" rather than "I want this preset to sound like this or that and therefore I will use a function generator"
I gather the function generators are based on some concepts known for modular synth users, but I guess more people who use Hive come from other wavetable/subtractive synths than from modulars.
You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- KVRAF
- 14436 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Planet Earth, Somewhere
sound sculptist
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- u-he
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Where the Shape Sequencer has a rhythmic and "exact" timing component, the function generators are all about non-host-tempo based timing.recursive one wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:56 pmFunction generators seems something a bit more obscure.
In their most simple and obvious form they are additional envelopes. In the discussion about Hive in relation to other softsynths you'll often hear that other softsynths have some kind of "Attack Spike" feature. Put an FG on any gain or volume knob, Hive gets that, too. This is an example of how we leverage things. Why waste a knob or two on some special case, when an extra knob catches a dozen feature requests at once? ("more LFOs!", "more envelopes!", "Attack Spikes!")
Again, the concept is abstract, but it's also not witchcraft.
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- KVRAF
- 5664 posts since 7 Feb, 2013
Cool! So far I was using a Shape Sequencer for this exact purposeUrs wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:20 pm In the discussion about Hive in relation to other softsynths you'll often hear that other softsynths have some kind of "Attack Spike" feature. Put an FG on any gain or volume knob, Hive gets that, too.
just because in Dune 2/3 I had been using a MSEG for that.You may think you can fly ... but you better not try
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- u-he
- 30188 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
Both are valid options.recursive one wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:20 pmCool! So far I was using a Shape Sequencer for this exact purposeUrs wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:20 pm In the discussion about Hive in relation to other softsynths you'll often hear that other softsynths have some kind of "Attack Spike" feature. Put an FG on any gain or volume knob, Hive gets that, too.
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Funkybot's Evil Twin Funkybot's Evil Twin https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=116627
- KVRAF
- 12443 posts since 16 Aug, 2006
The Shape Sequencer came out right around the time I was sitting down and learning VCV Rack and getting to better understand modular concepts when it comes to things sequencers/LFO's/Envelopes/FG's (Rampage/Maths). Like oh, take this, run it through a quantizer and it's a sequencer, don't and it's an LFO, set it to one-shot and it's an envelope, draw some fun shapes and it's an MSEG, run that to a filter or amp and it's a trance gate...The Shape Sequencer just seems like a very easy to use, very clever implementation of those same "West Coast" type concepts for adding movement and/or randomness. I'd love to see it in VCV Rack some day (preferably before someone steals the idea).
I do think a series of super short tutorial videos showing specific use cases would open people up to using it more. Using Hive's Shape Sequencer as an MSEG. Using it as a Sequencer. Using it as a trance gate. Using it as an LFO. Using it as a West Coast style sequencer...Then again, people will really start wanting more mod slots once they get a handle on it!
I do think a series of super short tutorial videos showing specific use cases would open people up to using it more. Using Hive's Shape Sequencer as an MSEG. Using it as a Sequencer. Using it as a trance gate. Using it as an LFO. Using it as a West Coast style sequencer...Then again, people will really start wanting more mod slots once they get a handle on it!