The new Reason+ (20€/mo, no more Reason Suite!)

[zoidkirb]

I never considered Reason to be very expensive... didn't they actually advertise it as a virtual studio equivalent which doesn't cost ten thousand of €?

Base program is relatively cheap. Due to the fun modular nature of the program it's pretty easy to get carried away buying modules and synths within their closed environment and that can add up fast.
I think also with some of the base features being a little simplistic, for example the barebones sequencer and sampler people tend to get pushed towards buying additional rack devices to make up for that.

[Local Man]

I don’t get all the drama. I hate subscriptions but since a sub is not mandatory, what do I care?
Also, I own Reason 11 suite and I couldn’t care less that suite is being discontinued.
I am not losing anything if I am offered the same upgrade path as everyone else, right?
To be honest, it’s a bit of a relief. I’m glad to be off the higher tier upgrade path. I got suite because there was a good deal on the upgrade and it came with a bunch of cool stuff that I didn’t already have. Now that I have that stuff (and I get to keep it mind you) I don’t want to be stuck paying a higher upgrade cost every time for things I may not want in the future. This is good the way I see it.

I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

[ozonepaul]

--

[ozonepaul]

I don’t get all the drama....I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

There are all kinds of subscription models, but you can put them in 2 main categorys:
1. When you stop paying you don't own the software, so you are left with nothing
2. When you stop paying you don't get any more upgrades/updates freely but you own the software (like Waves, Bitwig...)

3. In fact there is a 3rd one as well, it's sort of a "hybrid" subscription model that is used by Meldaproduction and some other developers. When the sum of your payments reaches the current MCompleteBundle price, you get the full permanent license; no more payments, ever.... free-for-life updates....This means that you will never need to pay to upgrade our software!So basically if your subscription payment reaches the price of the MCompleteBundle price than you own the software and all future updates/upgrades are free.

For me the 1st category is a big NO the other 2 are absolutely fine/acceptable. The problem with Propellerhead/Reason+ is that in their Reason+ promos (eg. the ones they sent out to Reason users) they forgot to clarify the details of their subscription model so it's not 100% clear in which category will they operate. I think this was a huge mistake, they angered a lot of their loyal users (including me) and confused some potential users. + It was a huge mistake introducing Reason Suit in 2019 August and now, in less than 2 years killing it. I think for Suit users there should be a discount compared to regular Reason 11 users (at least for the 1st year or so).

So you're right, the sky is not falling just yet, but Propellerhead made some major errors here (at least in my opinion). A well thought out, well communicated subscription model is one thing, you can have fair arguments for and against it but what Propellerhead has done with the announce of Reason+ was neither well thought out neither well communicated.

My 2 cents

[kmonkey]

3. In fact there is a 3rd one as well, it's sort of a "hybrid" subscription model that is used by Meldaproduction.

It's called "rent to own" and quite a few companies offered it.

Studio One can be purchased on a Rent to Own basis.

[antic604]

Unless 12 is free, then extra money comes out of my pocket with almost zero tangible benefit since I, like 40% of the userbase, use the vst plugin and don't care about the (in some respects) sub par DAW.

You don't have to upgrade, if the upgrade doesn't bring any benefits for you. When 12 comes out, you'll have to see if new added devices and high-res GUI (+ maybe some rack specific workflow improvements) make any difference for you. Otherwise you can stay with 11.

Its downgraded because suite is an upgrade from standard Reason, by buying 12 I'll be paying for almost nothing. Super simple concepts.

It's not an upgrade. It's just a bundle of devices, that I also have with 11 Standard. Your Suite version isn't in any way better than my Standard. It's not at all the same as it is with Cubase, Studio One or even FL, where different tiers actually have different core DAW features, that you can't purchase.

Excited for your replies where you pretend to not understand how crappy this switch is for a very large portion of the userbase, which is why people are pissed.

"large portion of the userbase" is pissed off because they can't understand 2 pages of anouncement text and/or purposefuly misinterpret it to get worked up about something that doesn't affect them. The ONLY group that's actually affected is those that have 11 Lite/Intro and won't be able to upgrade to 12 Lite/Intro, because that's been discontinued.

Everyone else is making shit up to feel upset about it.

[Local Man]

I don’t get all the drama....I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

There are all kinds of subscription models, but you can put them in 2 main categorys:
1. When you stop paying you don't own the software, so you are left with nothing
2. When you stop paying you don't get any more upgrades/updates freely but you own the software (like Waves, Bitwig...)

3. In fact there is a 3rd one as well, it's sort of a "hybrid" subscription model that is used by Meldaproduction and some other developers. When the sum of your payments reaches the current MCompleteBundle price, you get the full permanent license; no more payments, ever.... free-for-life updates....This means that you will never need to pay to upgrade our software!So basically if your subscription payment reaches the price of the MCompleteBundle price than you own the software and all future updates/upgrades are free.

For me the 1st category is a big NO the other 2 are absolutely fine/acceptable. The problem with Propellerhead/Reason+ is that in their Reason+ promos (eg. the ones they sent out to Reason users) they forgot to clarify the details of their subscription model so it's not 100% clear in which category will they operate. I think this was a huge mistake, they angered a lot of their loyal users (including me) and confused some potential users. + It was a huge mistake introducing Reason Suit in 2019 August and now, in less than 2 years killing it. I think for Suit users there should be a discount compared to regular Reason 11 users (at least for the 1st year or so).

So you're right, the sky is not falling just yet, but Propellerhead made some major errors here (at least in my opinion). A well thought out, well communicated subscription model is one thing, you can have fair arguments for and against it but what Propellerhead has done with the announce of Reason+ was neither well thought out neither well communicated.

My 2 cents

I understand what you are saying about the various types of subscriptions but what I am saying is that if the company still offers perpetual licenses as an option (which as I understand it Reason Studios will but correct me if I’m wrong) then it matters little to me how they handle subscriptions because I would never even consider a subscription for music production software.

To me though this does seem like a move that a company makes when it’s trying to hang on however it can and somehow still stay relevant. It’s kind of sad to see what is happening to (the company formerly known as) Propellerhead and Native Instruments.
It’s such a tough industry and these companies have given us so many great things. I hate to see them squirm and bend out of shape trying to stay afloat and please their business overlords.

[ozonepaul]

I understand what you are saying about the various types of subscriptions but what I am saying is that if the company still offers perpetual licenses as an option (which as I understand it Reason Studios will but correct me if I’m wrong) then it matters little to me how they handle subscriptions because I would never even consider a subscription for music production software.

To me though this does seem like a move that a company makes when it’s trying to hang on however it can and somehow still stay relevant. It’s kind of sad to see what is happening to (the company formerly known as) Propellerhead and Native Instruments.
It’s such a tough industry and these companies have given us so many great things. I hate to see them squirm and bend out of shape trying to stay afloat and please their business overlords.

if the company still offers perpetual licenses as an option (which as I understand it Reason Studios will but correct me if I’m wrong)
I think this is the main problem: based on the email they sent out to me about Reason+, I did not have a clue whether they still offer perpetual licenses or not. That's why I think they clearly made a huge communication error. I can understand all kinds of necessary changes but in return I need well thought out, honest communication.

It’s such a tough industry and these companies have given us so many great things. I hate to see them squirm and bend out of shape trying to stay afloat and please their business overlords.
100% agree with you. This is the exact reason why companies shouldn't allow "business overlords" to take over their direct communication channels to users.
I think we musicians (creative people in general) are a bit weird. We just want our honest, likable, weird, obsessed software gurus back at the driving seat.

[excuse me please]

The average (new) user has to buy a PC/lap, an interface and monitors speakers, mics, cables etc. Probably a MIDI controller, keyboard. They they probably have purchased some plugs.

The €240 p year could be 5-10% of a whole average (starters) home studio bugdet (€1250-€2500), spreaded over two years it would be double.

It's that simple.

[machinesworking]

I think Bitwig are the only company that does this right and it can be argued that they're too expensive, but still. You buy the license, then the subscription is an upgrade plan, wherever you leave off is where you're license is until you buy another one year subscription.

Of course any company can come up with any plan they want to, but I would rather be able to not have to choose between an expensive subscription and the full meal deal Reason with all racks etc.

The sad part for me is they got me, I doubt I'll want to buy Reason+ or whatever they're calling it at the upgrade path price they're going to jab us with, and I'm not buying their subscription. So I bought V11 for the Rack plug in, and I'll probably never see larger GUIs or a native Apple Silicon version of Reason. It's going to live and die on my 11 year old mac pro here.

[Tannaliini]

But why would "beginner" want to pay 240e/year for something they can't even keep at the end? Like mentioned earlier, there are other options offering rent-to-own way to get your DAW if you can't pay it fully at once. Sure if you have deep pockets filled with money, this Reason+ option can be ok...

[kmonkey]

I don’t get all the drama.

I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

You may act as a selfish idiot (i am not saying you are one) or that your percpetion isn't capable of deducting what's wrong there, but many people are left in dust wondering. Current trend is alarming. In case you missed it:


https://i.postimg.cc/4y4cj8Lr/IMG-2459.png

Meaning:

A: they are decimating refill developers by forcing they stupid "weekly" sound packs. One user just reported that inside a weekly pack there is literally one ID8 device mapped to two knobs in combinator. Yea!!! Rock and roll

Even more alarming;

B: they are decimating RE developers and REs'. You can bet that above picture is NOT just some case of "ahh we missed RE develoeprs in start but we are working on it". Notice clever wording "at some point". Add to that the fact PH Staff member reported at reasontalk how "new" website and new Subscription was ongoing development for a year!!!

If you think above two points aren't sign of shady business I don't know what is.

No one is against subscription as "an option". But current "moves" suggesting more like "we are PH, we want you to buy only our stuff and better yet subscribe to it only, because it is very likely that in the future we will offer subscription only."

I get it, it's speculation. But speculation based on current moves which are alarming to say at least.


edit: I just realized that they removed all 3rd party VST plugins from their shop. What's the message here?

[AcrossTheSky]

I don’t get all the drama.

I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

You may act as a selfish idiot (i am not saying you are one) or that your percpetion isn't capable of deducting what's wrong there, but many people are left in dust wondering. Current trend is alarming. In case you missed it:


https://i.postimg.cc/4y4cj8Lr/IMG-2459.png

Meaning:

A: they are decimating refill developers by forcing they stupid "weekly" sound packs. One user just reported that inside a weekly pack there is literally one ID8 device mapped to two knobs in combinator. Yea!!! Rock and roll

Even more alarming;

B: they are decimating RE developers and REs'. You can bet that above picture is NOT just some case of "ahh we missed RE develoeprs in start but we are working on it". Notice clever wording "at some point". Add to that the fact PH Staff member reported at reasontalk how "new" website and new Subscription was ongoing development for a year!!!

If you think above two points aren't sign of shady business I don't know what is.

No one is against subscription as "an option". But current "moves" suggesting more like "we are PH, we want you to buy only our stuff and better yet subscribe to it only, because it is very likely that in the future we will offer subscription only."

I get it, it's speculation. But speculation based on current moves which are alarming to say at least.


edit: I just realized that they removed all 3rd party VST plugins from their shop. What's the message here?

about 3h ago there was no RE available for purchase - you mentioned -
but HEY...

NOW THEY ARE ...........so quicky they change things...

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/brow ... os&pagex=2

[chk071]

I don’t get all the drama.

I first read this thread and was like ‘oh the sky is falling,’ but then I was like ‘oh wait, no it’s not.’ Oh KVR

You may act as a selfish idiot (i am not saying you are one) or that your percpetion isn't capable of deducting what's wrong there, but many people are left in dust wondering. Current trend is alarming.

No. It's alarming for YOU. That's a difference you should realize. Although I doubt that you are capable of that really. The fact that you consider people thinking different than you as "idiots", or telling them that they are selfish, while you are being selfish here, is tellfull really.

[whyterabbyt]

The average (new) user has to buy a PC/lap, an interface and monitors speakers, mics, cables etc. Probably a MIDI controller, keyboard. They they probably have purchased some plugs.

No. The average new user has to own a PC or laptop, and either speakers or headphones. They don't have to own anything else.