Aly James Lab VSDSX 2.0

[Goony]

I get it might be misleading but let me put this in perspective:
The only time I asked for small support (5€) for an update which was not for a major version change was:

• Vprom 2.0.4 in 2018

So between 2014 and now, this is the only time that it happened.
now I ask for another small support(5€) for

• VSDSX2.0.2 in 2021

For both of them I clearly stated that these are the last support request for an update until next major version upgrade.
I am willing to think that I won't need this in the future.

I used very low pricing since I started (as low as 15€ a plugin), I never do sales as the price is low enough and never change.

So between 2014 and 2021 I asked for a 10€ support...calling this "punishing"?
does it look like I am robbing somebody?
should I have just up the asked price? maybe, I choose not.

I am accepting critics, even bashing, that's the game, you don't do anything public if you don't expect to be trashed and loved at the same time.
I try to be fair and deliver good sounding stuff without breaking the bank.

For the sake of charging for minor update, you have instead decided to lose & alienate customers that have bought many of your plugins.. Well done..

[Goony]

I get it might be misleading but let me put this in perspective:
The only time I asked for small support (5€) for an update which was not for a major version change was:

• Vprom 2.0.4 in 2018

So between 2014 and now, this is the only time that it happened.
now I ask for another small support(5€) for

• VSDSX2.0.2 in 2021

Thats only because you disappeared for years.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Aly, I think people feel like, "look, piracy is going to happen - we agree it sucks." You know what else sucks? Charging for bug fixes. That's probably worse because the paying customers who DID support you, are being asked to cover maintenance and minor bug fix costs, which is normally baked into the purchase price of software. And then blaming that on piracy just adds insult to injury because it's like, "hey, thanks for not stealing my work, I'm going to ask you for a few bucks more because you didn't!"

I mean, if the original cost of VSDX was 5 euros more, I still would've bought it. But paying 5 euros more after the fact for minor bug fixes and maintenance just feels a bit insulting to paying customers. It would be one thing if this were a major update with new features and lots going on and there was an upgrade price. That's not this. This feels more like trying to squeeze more money from paying customers after new sales dried up. Why does it feel like that? Well, why not offer the update for free for existing customers and just raise the price for new sales by 5 euros?

Look, I've supported you by buying the Linn and Simmons, and even updated the Linn the last time. But it's going to sit wrong with people. I literally cannot think of any other developer that has done this. It's your right to, but this is just my feeling on the subject. VSDX works well enough for me now that I'm going to pass on this. I'd advise you to reconsider your maintenance model.

[EdSfer]

So between 2014 and now, this is the only time that it happened.
now I ask for another small support(5€) for

• VSDSX2.0.2 in 2021

For both of them I clearly stated that these are the last support request for an update until next major version upgrade.
I am willing to think that I won't need this in the future.

I used very low pricing since I started (as low as 15€ a plugin), I never do sales as the price is low enough and never change.

So between 2014 and 2021 I asked for a 10€ support...calling this "punishing"?
does it look like I am robbing somebody?
should I have just up the asked price? maybe, I choose not.

I am accepting critics, even bashing, that's the game, you don't do anything public if you don't expect to be trashed and loved at the same time.
I try to be fair and deliver good sounding stuff without breaking the bank.

Listen, I'm not happy to start an argument with you because, as I said, I love your plugins, and I consider them fairly priced. Fairly until minor updates are charged.

You may have asked only 2 times some "support" in 7 years, but it would be fair to say that there was close to no updates in 7 years. I'm looking at change logs for VProm and VSDSX.

VSDSX 1.0 came out in 2014. There were 3 updates since then: 1.1 (free - bug fix), 2.0 (paid) and 2.0.2 (paid).

VPROM 2 came out in 2015, had 3 (free AFAIK) bug fixes updates in the following months, and next update in 2019 (2.0.4) was charged.

That's 7 minor (for the most) updates in 7 years, and 3 of them were charged.

Does that make you a robber? Of course not, but it doesn't do any good to your image, and is likely to make your customers more reluctant to buy from you in the future.

[Aly James]

It almost feels like being in court in here, guess that's a society trend...
We agree to disagree, so as most users who have chosen to pay more than 5...I don't think they are dumb or were forced to do so.
I don't think we should force a one sided view on anything, there are many ways to skin a cat!
Even if it's not the majority (well it is in this KVR thread...) I get your point of view and for all those who said positive advice be sure I am taking notice

What feels bad is that this place should be a Music forum...especially in those crazy times, do we really need endless debates on economics, business models etc?
Why I don't see banging beats with VProm and VSDSX instead is beyond me.
Anyway this won't stop me being creative, the whole point is not following rules, can't please anybody.
Now go make some funky beats!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Well, I mean, I'm a customer who'd like to keep using the plugin and get updates. I'm fine with sticking to the current version but I'd like to get bug fixes for the product I paid for. Business models wouldn't have come up if you didn't ask for more money for a small maintenance update, which is way outside the norm. I didn't ask to pay you for the update, you asked me. We're not talking about it because a few of us were bored and wanted to bump this thread.

Also, what happens when the next product comes out and I'm like, "eh...he's just gonna charge me for minor updates later on." Do you think I'm going to want to buy? Ask for $5 today loose more than that tomorrow.

[Goony]

I for one will not be buying any future product from him. So instead of gaining 5euro, you have lost way way more from me in future sales.

[mladi]

I for one will not be buying any future product from him. So instead of gaining 5euro, you have lost way way more from me in future sales.

Me too.

First i thought okay.. man.. 5,-€.. i don't like to be "milked" that way but wtf... ..then, after i visited this thread i changed my mind.

Imo it's about time to introduce optional donation so that every customer can consider to pay or not. This way nobody feel cheated.

[Aly James]

Well, I mean, I'm a customer who'd like to keep using the plugin and get updates. I'm fine with sticking to the current version but I'd like to get bug fixes for the product I paid for. Business models wouldn't have come up if you didn't ask for more money for a small maintenance update, which is way outside the norm. I didn't ask to pay you for the update, you asked me. We're not talking about it because a few of us were bored and wanted to bump this thread.

Also, what happens when the next product comes out and I'm like, "eh...he's just gonna charge me for minor updates later on." Do you think I'm going to want to buy? Ask for $5 today loose more than that tomorrow.

I repeat I get your point, you explain it clearly but I am beginning to feel this is more about trends, fashion and stand point than anything else, more on that later...
A touch about "small maintenance": it's not because it seems small that it wasn't "big" a thing like "GUI enhancement" might be a whole graphic framework change etc...

I got young people around me, one day one of them suggested me to do some video streaming with my products saying people will throw money at you.. I said what? He said yeah people receive 5, 10, 20 dollars tips while playing video games from thousands of viewers... I said and they pay like that?? he say yeah we support each other, that's normal.
After a while I finally get it and felt kind of old fashion for a moment.
I was feeling that I should expect to pay for something once and for all, I didn't get the "support" part.
At some point you said that you would have paid way more initially, I think that's revealing, you would prefer to pay 60€ once and for all rather than pay 45 and not knowing if you would be "charged" for more in the future...
I get that but I repeat I am not planning some hidden subscription service, I am not a business man either so while it might seem weird to some I was just asking for a 5€ support, plain an simple and I didn't feel like blocking somebody to get an update asking for 5.
It seems you are implying that I am planning to ask loyal customers to pay endlessly based on some kind of mistrust.
It also overshadows the offered Claptrap plugin.
In the end it seems more about somebody's view point and social consensus than anything else.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yes, I would rather pay more up front, know what I'm getting into and get support for a plugin I paid for via bug fixes and maintenance rather than randomly get asked to pay more for random small updates. You think that's revealing? I think that's standard practice in the entire plugin industry with the exception being Waves and WUP. It feels very much like a subscription model, but a surprise subscription. "Hey no updates in a long time, but here I am asking for $5 to keep your plugin up to date!" It's like exactly what Waves does with WUP only without the transparency up front.

And why am I being asked to pay for an update because of piracy? I didn't pirate your plugins. I actually paid for them.

There's no social consensus here. I'm talking to you. I am your customer. I don't like this practice and I'm letting you know. I'm asking you to reconsider. If you don't want to. That's your choice. Just like not paying for a small update and not buying any plugins from you in the future would be my choice. I'd rather you reconsidered because I quite like your two plugins and use them all the time. But I'm not getting happy warm feelings about this.

[dvnation]

Yeah, I was a big fan, but now f*ck it, I don't like that you do this Aly, and I'm pretty much done with your plugins. Not going to pay for this update and definitely not going to buy anything from you in the future.

[Aly James]

Yes, I would rather pay more up front, know what I'm getting into and get support for a plugin I paid for via bug fixes and maintenance rather than randomly get asked to pay more for random small updates. You think that's revealing? I think that's standard practice in the entire plugin industry with the exception being Waves and WUP. It feels very much like a subscription model, but a surprise subscription. "Hey no updates in a long time, but here I am asking for $5 to keep your plugin up to date!" It's like exactly what Waves does with WUP only without the transparency up front.

And why am I being asked to pay for an update because of piracy? I didn't pirate your plugins. I actually paid for them.

There's no social consensus here. I'm talking to you. I am your customer. I don't like this practice and I'm letting you know. I'm asking you to reconsider. If you don't want to. That's your choice. Just like not paying for a small update and not buying any plugins from you in the future would be my choice. I'd rather you reconsidered because I quite like your two plugins and use them all the time. But I'm not getting happy warm feelings about this.

Look I don't see this as a business as strange as it seems, I don't consider people like "customers" either, to me we are buddies, musical ones, I am not a big company driven by ultimate profit and purposely keep it small and maintained by myself, have you ever seen adverts or "paid" reviews for my stuff? no because I don't do this, I keep it running by ear say and products quality does the job alone, just enough to keep this passion going...I have well known and unknown musicians and producers liking and supporting my work, if people got inspired that's all I am aiming for... the hell about standard industry practice, I consider myself as an artist, I am not an evil big company against poor customers, I am one guy doing it's thing, one said I would "milk" people!, other say "you are a genius" the same day... I thank you for your support but I am not begging, if ones consider that adding 5€ is a no go and it is more important than the product itself then the product isn't really needed in the first place and F.. the developer.

I started from scratch, learned those crafts on my own and don't need to be validated, while it's bashing time in here, support is going on on the other side...I even got people mailing me because they are watching this thread and wanted to show some love.
If ones like what I do and wants to help cool if someone wants to twist reality and turn the 2 times I asked for 5€ into Aly's is starting a new trend and planning to rob everybody it's your choice, not buying any more products is a choice too.

Damn all this for 5 bucks! who knows maybe Aly's products hadn't been hacked in the first place, he probably invented that, Aly probably invented COVID 19 too.

That's what you get for doing low pricing for years

Done with this nonsense. chose your camp.
Hope this was entertaining to watch.

[briefcasemanx]

I started from scratch, learned those crafts on my own and don't need to be validated

This definitely doesn't appear to be the case. You definitely appear to need much validation despite what you say.

You also say you're not a big corporation and this isn't about money, while at the same time pissing off your loyal customers over money.

This is 100% about your own validation, ego, and weird set of principles that are not self-consistent.

[electro]

Its a privilege to have someone developing accurate vintage hardware ITB such as Aly James, especially when he is not ruining it with an intrusive C/R copy protection system as other large companies. Supporting this company with a minor upgrade fee is a no brainer!!! Who on this forum would prefer the developer to get fed up with the ungratefulness and walk away....no more amazing plugins which is what I understand happened with the developer of SQ8L, a project never completed? I for one do not want to see Aly James stop developing plugins or move to some ugly C/R or even worse DRM the likes of Roland Cloud. The DAW community is spoiled rotten and needs to put things in perspective IMO. When developers like Aly do amazing work and sell it for cheap, just support it so they can continue doing this work full time. Why should a developer with the skills to deliver what he has have to worry about finding a day job? The entitlement culture is unbelievable.

It almost feels like being in court in here, guess that's a society trend...
We agree to disagree, so as most users who have chosen to pay more than 5...I don't think they are dumb or were forced to do so.

[yobare]

Its better to keep low prices to your customers im thinking of lower our products alot. Thats The best way to get customers.