KVR Audio

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:36 pm

As I sit here today with a recent Epi Joe Pass Signature (CIC) That I've had for awhile now.... The workmanship is fine. The pups suck (I had one replaced as well as the tailpiece) The pots are fair. For all that wood which robs the tone it is less stable than either the Korean ones of 20 years ago. (The Korean ones played better and sounded better) The neck is ordinately thick for no reason and I still rate it as above average for a Gibson.

From what I've read the Epi's quality has dropped off considerably over the last two years. If you got a good one pat yourself on the back.

As for Gibson USA what do you think now? Has quality improved? (it goes up and down)

Winstontaneous · Post by **Winstontaneous** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:06 am

IMO for Gibson USA in the last 20-30 years the only geetars not made for rich dentist hacks are the Les Paul Studio and the similar SG model. At least for a while the LP Studio had ebony fingerboard, maple top, good pickups and everything you'd want in a US Gibson, for well under $2K. And things like the Jimmy Page and Alex Lifeson signature LPs, while interesting, are out of the reach of working musicians. And news flash, Gibson - LP and SG body shapes on bass guitars are guaranteed to neck-dive.

Henry J is out the door, and Gibson just bought Mesa-Boogie so I sure as f#ck hope they know what they're doing, as you note they tend to destroy the brands they buy.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:05 am

Serious keyboard players pay a lot more for high end workstations then guitarists do for a guitar.

New
Roland Fantom 8 $4000
Kurzweil Forte $4,999.
Yamaha Montage $3,499.99

And for the Doctors and Lawyers
Yamaha Genos $5,999.99

As for guitars there are a special class of luthier built archtops that make the most expensive gibson seem reasonable.

Daniel Slaman makes some fine guitars (one man luthier/builder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqDBGVbMkwk
Victor Baker guitars (Master Luthier and one assistant) makes some fine guitars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdDacK5Rzc

Benedetto guitars aint cheap either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgUud11yCc
All much higher priced than the most expensive Gibson

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:49 am

I have high hopes. The CEO that most people largely held responsible for Gibsons rape and pillage routine with buying and destroying companies is gone, and hopefully this also means quality standards go up.

I've had a modified with hum buckers 78 Les Paul Pro forever. Love the sound of Gibsons.

fedexnman · Post by **fedexnman** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:11 am

I got a Les Paul 120th anniversary melody maker with P90s wine stain finish . I bought mail-order from smash dot com . That guitar sucks ass .

Googly Smythe · Post by **Googly Smythe** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:23 am

Does Gibson still suck?

Do you still beat your wife?

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:33 am

A click bait title.

My first guitar was a gibson ES-335. It was used and I saved for six months to afford it (borrowing anyone else's guitar I could in the meantime) I've owned three Les Paul's. My favorite was my 78 LP custom which was the last of the all mahogany body LP Customs. It was two piece was heavy as hell played like heaven.

I've had years where I was impressed with them and years I was unimpressed. Not the only one. Gibson has had more than a few failed moments. I know people who worship Gibson I used to be a fanboi myself but grew up. This isn't the first time Gibson has put a new President in place that promised everyone everything and was clearly aware of who was buttering his bread. Business magazines will say one thing, TV shows will try to keep the legend alive. Companies that sell Gibsons want you to buy them and companies that can't sell Gibson will tell you they suck. Then there are "influencers" who can have a lot of prejudice going in and a few very few independent reviewers who will give you an honest accounting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuUO-ktQ3qQ

morelia · Post by **morelia** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:37 am

tapper mike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:05 am Serious keyboard players pay a lot more for high end workstations then guitarists do for a guitar.

Possibly right a lot of the time. To each individual the price point for a decent guitar or keyboard will be different though. Cheap guitars are probably easier to make close to convincing quality than a keyboard. How about this as an alternative. Serious guitarists pay a lot more for high end guitars than a keyboard player does for a keyboard.

In all my bands I have been primarily a guitarist and backing vocalist. I cannot recall a single instance where the keyboard player had an instrument worth more than my main guitars. They had things like Korg M1, DW8000, Roland JX3P, ASR10. Can't remember any others sorry. And I don't consider myself a serious guitarist. Just an addicted for life guitarist. I imagine serious guitarists pay more.

Local Man · Post by **Local Man** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:44 am

tapper mike wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:05 am Daniel Slaman makes some fine guitars (one man luthier/builder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqDBGVbMkwk

Damn that guitar is gorgeous.

pekbro · Post by **pekbro** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:38 am

I dont think the 2 Gibsons I have suck at all.

The acoustic takes a lot of strength to play, if that means it sucks. Most other guitars
I've tried while easier, don't feel as good to me, and can't carry really heavy strikes
as well.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:01 am

What I question is choice of hardware, pickups and fretjobs on $2500 guitars.
I find the core guitar wooden parts are lovely on my LP standard.

It's like there is no real idea about next years edition - to improve.
They settle for different - finishes, pups and tuners.

My LP has a 17mm thick headstock, probably to try and remedy problems with broken headstock. Mine fell over from floor stand and still broke. You see already on tuner posts that they are tighter to headstock, so thicker.

On 335 I had it was 16mm thick, which I believe is standard. Standard tuners are made for max 16mm too as I discovered. When I swapped to Schaller Keystone on my LP I had to contact their support and they sent me longer bolts.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:05 am

I've had 4, still have 1 (SG Classic w/P90s). The other 3 were dogs, and were sold for significant losses. My Epi 'Inspired By John Lennon' Casino is a dream to play, I'll never sell it. Since my guitar acquisition phase of my life is pretty much over, it's not likely I'll even try another Gibby, though I probably wouldn't even if I was still in the market.

Henry Jimdrix · Post by **Henry Jimdrix** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:43 pm

Googly Smythe wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:23 am
Does Gibson still suck?

Do you still beat your wife?

¿es el papa católico?

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:41 pm

Getting back to keyboards and bands.....

The big gigging for non signed bands over the last 20+ years has been Parks and Rec gigs. These are all AA cover bands. When I worked in the software industry I loved going to free concerts in the park in and around suburbia. Every keyboard player had two sets of keys. Usually a top end Kurzweil and a Fantom or Kronos/M3. Almost none of the guitarists had variax but most were running Helix along with a custom shop gibson and or fender. Maybe it was because they were making big bucks that they could splurge on the most expensive but may because they did splurge on the best they got the better gigs.

Back to Gibson. When you are paying that much you expect more. You shouldn't get flaws and the comparison shows that both the 2019 (before the new ceo) and the 2020 still are flawed. Notice he said he went through every guitar in his local GC playing each one to find the one that worked and he was unimpressed with the 18 he didn't choose. They ones he did choose had flaws. Not game changers for many.

About the headstock / non volute. Yeah I too had a les paul that took a dive headstock first and it didn't survive. There have been year where gibson went with a volute to strengthen it and many other manufactures use volutes as well as other methods (making a thicker headstock or neck really isn't that effective but I'm sure it's their rationale for the fat neck. My 72 reissue (standard goldtop p90) and Custom both had thinner necks as did my 57 standard than is the current 50's or 60's LP's And I know this because.. I have a Joe Pass Emperor Pro II with the "current" 50's profile.

Henry Jimdrix · Post by **Henry Jimdrix** » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:52 pm

I'm feeling put off from ever buying a Gibson from what I've read. Not that a could afford one at the moment, but a Gibson is probably what I would look for in the future, purely because I always associated them with being of high quality. Maybe I shouild just stick with my Vintage V100 as my best guitar.