Cubase/Melda Users

[Hexspa]

@Hexspa you can easily place time signatures and markers on the bar or off the bar in Reaper.
I use that feature all the time, perhaps you need to turn snapping on? By default it does just that.

There are so many user adjustable preferences I understand the confusion, any time I've had an issue it was almost always a simple preference change.

Thanks but maybe we mean different things. You may be surprised to know that no DAW among Live, Cubase, Reaper nor Studio one allow for the behavior I describe.

What I want (but doesn't exist): Put a marker on beat 1, measure 4 when in 4/4 time. Change time signature to 6/4. Have marker stay on beat 1, measure 4. DAWs currently keep the marker glued to the 17th quarter note which is now beat 5, measure 3. It would be one thing if it was just one marker but it inflames my OCD to have everything shifted.

I guess I can just use markers differently but, still, I think the current behavior seems like an oversight. Think about it: you're writing a song. You know where the bridge goes so you have markers/regions/sections set. You think, "Mmm, maybe I'll put this in 6/4," then click enter. Boom, markers have all moved relative to the new grid. Not sure if the same thing happens when entering a time signature change marker/automating it but still.

Every DAW has quirks. For instance, Studio One doesn't let you specify when 00:00:00 starts. You can specify a beat offset but not time. It says you can offset frames but that's different and it actually doesn't appear to do anything useful since you can't start frames at 0.

But, seriously, that jumpy thing reaper does when changing tempo is a deal breaker for me. Until now, nobody has told me how to change that and I don't think it's possible - and I've searched and tried. Maybe a script but I don't know how.

I'm not denying reaper being cool. All I'm saying is that this perception that 'it can do anything' might be theoretically true but sometimes it's beyond reasonable practicality for most users.

How hard would it be to write a script to change the behavior of reaper's timeline? Is it even possible? I don't know where to start and I'm not sure that I want to.

It doesn't have a chord track either which puts me back to markers which puts me back to time signature changes and clutter.

Maybe this seems like the cry of a melting snowflake but I have to stare at this software every day. I would just like to stare at something that works how I'd like. Maybe one day.

[Held]

What I want (but doesn't exist): Put a marker on beat 1, measure 4 when in 4/4 time. Change time signature to 6/4. Have marker stay on beat 1, measure 4. DAWs currently keep the marker glued to the 17th quarter note which is now beat 5, measure 3. It would be one thing if it was just one marker but it inflames my OCD to have everything shifted.

I'm not sure I can help you, but just thinking about writing a script, I'm wondering what the opposite behavior should be. In 6/4, you have a marker on beat 5 and go to 4/4. Where would the marker go?

It's probably possible to write a script where you specify the desired signature and it moves the markers around to you desired positions. Maybe you'll find someone to implement it for you in the REAPER forum. People there are generally happy to help if it isn't too much work.

[Hexspa]

Ya I was wondering too, like how would this be implemented. I really only wanted it to be linked to bars but, true, what if the marker is not on a bar? I think, musically, it makes sense to keep the marker in the bar number where it was before changing the time signature.

Beat 5 of a 6/4 measure is the fifth quarter note triplet of a 4/4 bar. Beat 3 of a 4/4 measure is pretty much beat 4 of a 6/4 measure. I don't think anyone is putting markers on 1/8th notes but this logic could scale to any resolution, it seems. Of course, this is for beat-based and not time-based scaling.

If I get fed up with Studio One, I'll be back in the reaper forums pleading my case. Maybe a script daddy will take pity on me.

[Held]

Didn't you say Studio One doesn't support that behavior either?

[Dirk Diggler]

Ah hah I think I figured out the issue, you need to turn snapping OFF in Reaper. You can turn it back on if you need it after you setup your time sig changes.

No scripting needed.
Good luck,
Dirk

[Held]

Ah hah I think I figured out the issue, you need to turn snapping OFF in Reaper. You can turn it back on if you need it after you setup your time sig changes.

No scripting needed.
Good luck,
Dirk

How does that work? I turned snapping off, set a marker on 2.1 (measure.beat) and 4.1, changed the signature from 4/4 to 6/4 and now my markers are on 1.5 and 3.1. The desired behavior is that they stay on 2.1 and 4.1

I took a look at the scripting API and everything necessary to implement this seems to be there, but I don't have enough experience with Lua and Reaper to do it quickly.

[Hexspa]

Didn't you say Studio One doesn't support that behavior either?

No daw does it. On second thought, I thought I saw Waveform by Tracktion behave differently but I already uninstalled it. Like I said, I'm trying to build my mix template in Studio One right now so, if something doesn't work, I'm just moving on for now.

Cheers.

[Hexspa]

Ah hah I think I figured out the issue, you need to turn snapping OFF in Reaper. You can turn it back on if you need it after you setup your time sig changes.

No scripting needed.
Good luck,
Dirk

Figured out what issue? Turning off snapping doesn't seem to address any issue I'm describing; I just checked. Thanks for investigating, though.

[Hexspa]

Ah hah I think I figured out the issue, you need to turn snapping OFF in Reaper. You can turn it back on if you need it after you setup your time sig changes.

No scripting needed.
Good luck,
Dirk

How does that work? I turned snapping off, set a marker on 2.1 (measure.beat) and 4.1, changed the signature from 4/4 to 6/4 and now my markers are on 1.5 and 3.1. The desired behavior is that they stay on 2.1 and 4.1

I took a look at the scripting API and everything necessary to implement this seems to be there, but I don't have enough experience with Lua and Reaper to do it quickly.

I think he may have thought we were talking about something else.

That's pretty cool that you can look into these things. I might as well be looking at a rock. Where would I start learning these things like APIs and Lua scripts?

[Held]

That's pretty cool that you can look into these things. I might as well be looking at a rock. Where would I start learning these things like APIs and Lua scripts?

I used to be a professional software developer, so I got some programming skills

Here's a tutorial series for scripting in Reaper, but it's a bit messy because there are two scripting languages in Reaper, and I think it uses both. At first, only EEL was available, but now everyone uses Lua because it's easier.

https://www.extremraym.com/en/reascript-basics-part1/

I couldn't find any Lua tutorials for people who are new to programming because almost no one uses it as their first language, so it could be helpful to start with Python and then switching to Lua, but here's some info on how to get started with Lua https://www.tutorialspoint.com/lua/index.htm

There's a reason why Reaper is mostly popular with people with an engineering background

[Dirk Diggler]

You can only mark the in, and of course that will change the second marker.
The first one sets the time signature from that point on, then the next marker would be placed where you need it, but you can't do the second without the first.

Snapping just rounds it (quantizes it) to the actual bar line. Snapping off lets you put it anywhere you like. Another thing to consider is are you using a regular marker, or Insert Tempo/Time signature marker? You can also pick to allow a partial measure or gradual change to marker.

Or maybe I still don't understand your issue, I use this all the time with multiple odd time sections without issue. If you don't want full bar sections just adjust the time signature to make it what you want.

Good luck, just trying to be helpful.
Dirk

[Hexspa]

That's pretty cool that you can look into these things. I might as well be looking at a rock. Where would I start learning these things like APIs and Lua scripts?

I used to be a professional software developer, so I got some programming skills

Here's a tutorial series for scripting in Reaper, but it's a bit messy because there are two scripting languages in Reaper, and I think it uses both. At first, only EEL was available, but now everyone uses Lua because it's easier.

https://www.extremraym.com/en/reascript-basics-part1/

I couldn't find any Lua tutorials for people who are new to programming because almost no one uses it as their first language, so it could be helpful to start with Python and then switching to Lua, but here's some info on how to get started with Lua https://www.tutorialspoint.com/lua/index.htm

There's a reason why Reaper is mostly popular with people with an engineering background

Thank you for the resources. May I find time to learn this sorcery.

[Hexspa]

You can only mark the in, and of course that will change the second marker.
The first one sets the time signature from that point on, then the next marker would be placed where you need it, but you can't do the second without the first.

Snapping just rounds it (quantizes it) to the actual bar line. Snapping off lets you put it anywhere you like. Another thing to consider is are you using a regular marker, or Insert Tempo/Time signature marker? You can also pick to allow a partial measure or gradual change to marker.

Or maybe I still don't understand your issue, I use this all the time with multiple odd time sections without issue. If you don't want full bar sections just adjust the time signature to make it what you want.

Good luck, just trying to be helpful.
Dirk

It's all good. I think you're talking about using time signature markers. What I mean is changing the time signature globally via the transport bar. Using markers is related to that but I don't mean changing time signature via markers.

It's really simple - just set a loop of any length when in 4/4. Change time signature to something unrelated like 3/8. Observe how the loop brace no longer lines up with the original bars. Now imagine trying to create a template with 15 markers and having this happen.

Obviously I have to use markers differently. I had just included them in a writing template but I'll have to do something else.

All of this is minor stains when compared to how the arrange view jumps around when changing tempo, however. That's the real killer for me. I change time signatures occasionally but tempo frequently for rehearsal. 90% of what I do is writing and rehearsal so having a timeline that I like is essential.

Thanks for the help, people. Like I said, I'm using a different DAW for now. Maybe I'll hate it after a few tracks but I already set up my mix template.

Cheers.