PA Maag EQ4 vs EQ2 - is the air on 4 smoother?

[El°HYM]

Not exactly an Airband, yet might be able to achieve similar:
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/roth-air-by-rothmann

I also remember Airwindows wanting to release an Air - Band - Equalizer,
which he might already have & I just dont know because its hidden the 300+ Plugin - folder.

Could be one of these, that are already near/there:
https://www.airwindows.com/purestair-vst/
https://www.airwindows.com/air-vst/

Would be pretty neat to see an Update on the air - band concept by chris.

We always fall into this trap, for example we've made "air" EQ a thing. It's not a thing. It's not a situation where only plugins that explicitly state an "air" control do it. An "air band" is not a thing. I'm calling snakeoil on "air". PA have made millions off this "air band". It's a high shelf and that's literally all it is - any EQ that doesn't cramp against Nyquist will do it.

Let's de-mistify these marketing terms and save some money.

Pretty much sums it up, yes. It's always just an Emulation, a take on this or that kind of concept, sometimes with pretty good & unique outcomes, often just a nice looking GUI with similar Algorithms inside. I guess that's what it means, when they say 'We're living in a Box'.

[fese]

In true kvr fashion I feel inclined to tell you that EQ4 sounds much more open and clearer and 3D and has that extra bit of gnnnmpf that we're all looking for. EQ2 is absolutely inferior and has nasty cramping and aliasing and - if the numbers don't make it obvious - is only half as good.

IMO this is more the true gearslutz fashion. The KVR fashion is more like “there’s Luftikus, it’s free” (see above ) or “have you tried reaper, there’s a jsfx plugin that can do that”...

[KostyaKostya]

you pay for the brand, not the plugin. you can do same curve with same result with any stock eq.

[v1o]

you pay for the brand, not the plugin. you can do same curve with same result with any stock eq.

Majority of Stock EQs don't go above 20K. Many are not even decramped so will sound unpleasant in the high frequency range.

[jochicago]

you can do same curve with same result with any stock eq.

I didn't want to go there but this has been mentioned more than once here.

This idea is wrong on so many levels. I'm going to point out a few. Let's focus on high shelves to keep it simple:

1. My stock eq in Studio One called Pro EQ does not allow a variable Q. I have to pick from a dropdown of Q options (3 shapes). So even if I wanted to match some other EQ I have no flexibility here.

2. The best digital EQs have at least 2 types of shelves: a "digital" type of shelf that stays in shape and doesn't add resonant edges, and the "analog-like" shape that will add resonance edges if you tighten the Q. Not every EQ offers both, and the shapes these resonances take will vary from plugin to plugin. Some even have shapes that allow resonance on only one edge of the shelf.

3. There's a shelf that I call "vintage" that makes the untreated side of the shelf start to sag if you crank up the shelf. You can find this shape in some "vintage" flavored eqs like Waves H-EQ, and some of the fanciest digital EQs that offer tons of shapes. The shape of this sag varies greatly between EQ designs. For instance, Waves H-EQ has 2 versions, while most digital EQs don't offer this at all.
(I have another 5 things to point out about high shelves, but let's move on)

4. Phase management. Most EQs are on natural phase. Some EQs offer linear phase. Some EQs offer both as a toggle. A very select few have something I call hybrid phase that it's an algorithm that decides on its own a balance between natural and linear according to the logic of the developers. For instance Pro Q3 and TB Flx3, and they both behave uniquely. Ozone's EQ lets you control the phase of an EQ node in 100 percentage points. I do not know of any stock EQ that offers linear phase or any other phase manipulation feature.

5. Analog emulation. Some plugins will use modeling to add non-linearities to the way that the boosts are being handled and this can be incredibly effective. A very easy example is Audio Assault FreakQ-305. The difference is palpable. For instance, let's take a vocal track, if you move the knobs to do 24 db of gain at 5khz, using your stock EQ you'd push your vocal into extreme sibilance and harshness and it will sound horrid. If you do the same thing with FreakQ-305 in Console mode you can only make the sound unbalanced and mildly unpleasant. Try the demo.

Toned MAX EQ has 13 modes of analog emulation to give you control over how this emulation affects the character of the EQ moves. You will not get anywhere near the sound of these EQs with your stock EQ.

[keyman_sam]

What about clariphonic EQ? It has a similar Air Band and the demos look pretty impressive.

[revvy]

I like eq 4, bought it years ago and still sounds good to me.

[simon.a.billington]

I dare say it’s the same design on both of them. If it ain’t broke, why fix it. Their “Air band” was quite reputable, so I can’t imagine Maag doing anything to potentially sabotage his own design.

But this is just speculation.

[4damind]

This air band is nothing more than a shelf filter, right? So the Maag plays a bit in the area where many would also use a Pultec emulation. There is also this AirEQ (or the modules in the Slate VMR), which probably borrowed something from the ideas of Pultec/Maag.
PA is currently running their Sales again and I remembered the Maag. It's often mentioned on YouTube videos and in tutorials but I'm not sure if it's really that special that you should have it?

[simon.a.billington]

This air band is nothing more than a shelf filter, right? So the Maag plays a bit in the area where many would also use a Pultec emulation. There is also this AirEQ (or the modules in the Slate VMR), which probably borrowed something from the ideas of Pultec/Maag.
PA is currently running their Sales again and I remembered the Maag. It's often mentioned on YouTube videos and in tutorials but I'm not sure if it's really that special that you should have it?

Well there is a certain lift in the upper harmonics that come with that shelf. Each of these eqs have this characteristic too, but they do it in their own way. The right choice on the right mix can work wonders.

[mixtur.se]

Was researching these plugins and found this thread, and thought I´d add something.
One EQ that isn´t mentioned a lot is PSP E27 EQ which has a 28K band.
Adding this to a mix and just hitting the 28K button gives it a sweet sheen. I haven't been able to reproduce this sound with any other EQ:s and I would definitely recommend trying it.
This is pretty much the only thing I used it for as I prefer digital EQ:s with proper computer-like interfaces.

[MogwaiBoy]

This air band is nothing more than a shelf filter, right? So the Maag plays a bit in the area where many would also use a Pultec emulation. There is also this AirEQ (or the modules in the Slate VMR), which probably borrowed something from the ideas of Pultec/Maag.
PA is currently running their Sales again and I remembered the Maag. It's often mentioned on YouTube videos and in tutorials but I'm not sure if it's really that special that you should have it?

Well there is a certain lift in the upper harmonics that come with that shelf. Each of these eqs have this characteristic too, but they do it in their own way. The right choice on the right mix can work wonders.

Hate to be that annoying guy who relies on eyes as well as ears, but according to PluginDoctor the Maag EQs don't produce harmonics... unless you count inharmonic quantization noise

[4damind]

So this "magic air"band is only a clean "magic" shelf filter

[Ploki]

Majority of Stock EQs don't go above 20K. Many are not even decramped so will sound unpleasant in the high frequency range.

Logic's EQ is oversampled.
And maag eq4 doesn't go over 20k either, because its not even oversampled, if i recall correctly.

4. Phase management. Most EQs are on natural phase. Some EQs offer linear phase. Some EQs offer both as a toggle. A very select few have something I call hybrid phase that it's an algorithm that decides on its own a balance between natural and linear according to the logic of the developers. For instance Pro Q3 and TB Flx3, and they both behave uniquely. Ozone's EQ lets you control the phase of an EQ node in 100 percentage points. I do not know of any stock EQ that offers linear phase or any other phase manipulation feature.

5. Analog emulation. Some plugins will use modeling to add non-linearities to the way that the boosts are being handled and this can be incredibly effective. A very easy example is Audio Assault FreakQ-305. The difference is palpable. For instance, let's take a vocal track, if you move the knobs to do 24 db of gain at 5khz, using your stock EQ you'd push your vocal into extreme sibilance and harshness and it will sound horrid. If you do the same thing with FreakQ-305 in Console mode you can only make the sound unbalanced and mildly unpleasant. Try the demo.

Toned MAX EQ has 13 modes of analog emulation to give you control over how this emulation affects the character of the EQ moves. You will not get anywhere near the sound of these EQs with your stock EQ.

4. Most plugins are on minimal phase, not natural phase. Natural phase in Pro-Q3 is the "hybrid" phase, and other EQs don't use the term natural phase.
Logic's stock EQ offers optional linear phase.

5. I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. There's a limited number of ways you can implement a digital filter. On the other hand, GUI and topology of it does affect a lot how you will work for it.
i.e. i can emulate a pultec curve with a pro-q3 but it will take me 4x as many steps to do so, and i will likely not do with a pro-q3 intuitively in the first place.

Well there is a certain lift in the upper harmonics that come with that shelf. Each of these eqs have this characteristic too, but they do it in their own way. The right choice on the right mix can work wonders.

Well of course EXISTING HARMONICS are lifted, it's a shelving EQ. Every high-shelving EQ will technically lift harmonics.

[Ou_Tis]

Hate to be that annoying guy who relies on eyes as well as ears, but according to PluginDoctor the Maag EQs don't produce harmonics... unless you count inharmonic quantization noise

I tried duplicating the effect of Maag 4's air with Neutron 3 and with Crave. Maag 4 has a significantly different character that I prefer---more like the hardware Maag 4. So those PluginDoctor tests must be missing something. The "experts" in this thread had me thinking I was hallucinating, but I sent some blind tests to professional musicians and music teachers and they preferred the (PA) Maag 4.

If someone can actually make Pro-Q 3 sound almost exactly like Maag 4, I'd be curious to hear it. Blind test is best.

[Edit: perhaps you're falsely assuming than inharmonic noise can't possibly be improving the sound?]