Zebra 3/Hive schedule?

[Urs]

Would love to see scale quantization on portamento too!

If my original concept form pitch management is being executed, there'll be quantised portamento (I call it "Glissando", not sure if that's technically correct), too.

[EvilDragon]

Glissando is definitely technically correct (it was even used by Yamaha on DX7 which had both portamento and glissando modes).

[jackmazzotti]

So gliding notes can be discreetly scale stepped instead of gliding?

[Urs]

So gliding notes can be discreetly scale stepped instead of gliding?

That would be the idea.

On a deeper note: Even though I'm the boss, I have made the experience that "encouraging" developers sometimes come with "biting lips", followed by "encouragement regrets". IIRC the first iteration of Z3's "Pitches and Glides" does not have the ability of arbitrarily ordering modulations, glide and quantisations. I might be wrong. My head is elsewhere currently. But even if, that doesn't mean the journey has come to an end. I might just retask one of our more recent developers to reimagine the module to be more versatile in the spirit I'm envisioning.

[jackmazzotti]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

[Urs]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

Possible, yes. But not trivial to achieve.

The concept of Zebra3 seeks unification of the ways oscillators, MSEGs and ModMappers are edited. Such that it's reasonable to assume that if oscillators get wavetable support, MSEGs and ModMappers might as well. Whereas LFOs will likely stay simple in waveform, with different kinds of options, i.e. less overlap with MSEGs which can act as LFOs as well.

[jackmazzotti]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

Possible, yes. But not trivial to achieve.

The concept of Zebra3 seeks unification of the ways oscillators, MSEGs and ModMappers are edited. Such that it's reasonable to assume that if oscillators get wavetable support, MSEGs and ModMappers might as well. Whereas LFOs will likely stay simple in waveform, with different kinds of options, i.e. less overlap with MSEGs which can act as LFOs as well.

But wavetable LFOs will allow for dynamic changes in modulation with a large library of preset wavetables. I am really hoping for this in Hive 2. It's already a modulation monster but wavetable LFOs would tear the roof off! It is definitely next level modulation.

[pdxindy]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

Possible, yes. But not trivial to achieve.

The concept of Zebra3 seeks unification of the ways oscillators, MSEGs and ModMappers are edited. Such that it's reasonable to assume that if oscillators get wavetable support, MSEGs and ModMappers might as well. Whereas LFOs will likely stay simple in waveform, with different kinds of options, i.e. less overlap with MSEGs which can act as LFOs as well.

But wavetable LFOs will allow for dynamic changes in modulation with a large library of preset wavetables. I am really hoping for this in Hive 2. It's already a modulation monster but wavetable LFOs would tear the roof off! It is definitely next level modulation.

Does it matter if it is wavetable LFO's or wavetable MSEG's? Same basic thing...

I'm doubtful I want wavetable LFO's... there is no way to edit it so if it is not quite doing what I want, I have to hunt for another wavetable that does. Seems kinda like hunting through many hundreds of samples to find one that is hopefully right for the particular use. An unappealing task.

I do like the idea of Zebra 2 Osc's ability to draw user waveforms (up to 16 of them) and morph between them as an MSEG option for Z3. In imagining it, I guess the great majority of the time morphing between 2 or 3 waves would be enough and it would be user editable and not require a huge library.

[Urs]

I have similar resentments. Wavetables are typically made for audio rate - anything 40Hz and up -, which is fine with a length of 2048 samples per cycle. When you run them at 1Hz or less, as you typically would, the steps from one sample to another turn into short - but audible - glides. Instead of crisp sharp corners you'd end up with wobbly wobbles like our "random glide" waveforms. It's good for slow evolving things, but it has hardly any place in rhythmic patches due to the lack of "sharp corners".

Therefore, for LFO-type modulations it would be much more useful to add ways to bend the shapes parametrically, such as pulsewidth, curvature or slew rate - anything where sharp corners and timing are preserved. And maybe make it possible to combine waveforms in a sequential manner. All things we're exploring in the Shape Sequencer.

[PieBerger]

I have similar resentments. Wavetables are typically made for audio rate - anything 40Hz and up -, which is fine with a length of 2048 samples per cycle. When you run them at 1Hz or less, as you typically would, the steps from one sample to another turn into short - but audible - glides. Instead of crisp sharp corners you'd end up with wobbly wobbles like our "random glide" waveforms. It's good for slow evolving things, but it has hardly any place in rhythmic patches due to the lack of "sharp corners".

Therefore, for LFO-type modulations it would be much more useful to add ways to bend the shapes parametrically, such as pulsewidth, curvature or slew rate - anything where sharp corners and timing are preserved. And maybe make it possible to combine waveforms in a sequential manner. All things we're exploring in the Shape Sequencer.

The Shape Sequencer in Hive is a lot more fun to play around to get interesting results, than scrolling through (wavetable shape) presets ever will be. I hope this approach will be developed further in Zebra!

[EvilDragon]

Therefore, for LFO-type modulations it would be much more useful to add ways to bend the shapes parametrically, such as pulsewidth, curvature or slew rate - anything where sharp corners and timing are preserved. And maybe make it possible to combine waveforms in a sequential manner. All things we're exploring in the Shape Sequencer.

Absolutely, I subscribe to this.

Could be something like how you can parametrically shape the audio rate oscillators in z3ta+ or Helix, for example. That's pretty awesome, and can also be modulatable, for ever-evolving LFO shapes, really.

[DrGonzo]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

Not trying to mess with you or anything but for what do you feel a wavetable LFO would be useful for? Just curious. You can do quite a lot of crazy tricks with Hive 2 (but you probably know all about that already).

/C

[jackmazzotti]

Therefore, for LFO-type modulations it would be much more useful to add ways to bend the shapes parametrically, such as pulsewidth, curvature or slew rate - anything where sharp corners and timing are preserved. And maybe make it possible to combine waveforms in a sequential manner. All things we're exploring in the Shape Sequencer.

Absolutely, I subscribe to this.

Could be something like how you can parametrically shape the audio rate oscillators in z3ta+ or Helix, for example. That's pretty awesome, and can also be modulatable, for ever-evolving LFO shapes, really.

I would love to see waveshaping of LFOs like in z3ta+! It would be great to have an xy pad to push and pull the shape like in z3ta+. z3ta+ has very powerful LFO shapes that can smoothly morph into another shape. Absynth has ability too. I was just thinking if the wavetable could have a smooth interpolation algorithm the glitchyness would be eliminated.

[jackmazzotti]

Would wavetable LFOs be a possibility for Hive 2 and Z3?

Not trying to mess with you or anything but for what do you feel a wavetable LFO would be useful for? Just curious. You can do quite a lot of crazy tricks with Hive 2 (but you probably know all about that already).

/C

Morphing rhythmic shapes. The main idea for me is being able to smoothly morph shapes like 3 stairs into 4, 5, 6 7 ect or a staircase into saw or sine. Go from a sine cycling through the wavetable osc into discrete skipping staircases would be one application. Having all the Galbanum waves inside of Absynth LFOs has been a goldmine of rhythmic creativity for me. Since I have really come to fall in love Hive 2 I want more powerful ways to shape the LFOs. I would love to see 4 LFOS and double the modulation slots as well.

As side note one trick I do with my live performance tracks is I midi map Xfer LFO Tool shapes so I can control and shape the dynamics of each track individually so it's not a static side chain but a volume shaper that I can sculpt/skew in real time. If it was just a static waveform I wouldn't use it apart from side chaining.

[MitchK1989]

I mean if you can use a wavetable in a modmapper just run an LFO through a wavetable'd modmapper to get your wavetable lfo, no?