Reverbs

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRAF
20605 posts since 12 Jul, 2003 from West Caprazumia

Post Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:58 am

The Delay and the Shimmer and the only two Valhallas I don't have, so I have a hard time really disagreeing with you there (and I am on the record saying something along these lines when the Delay came out) - Übermod on the other hand can sound absolutely great in my opinion.

I didn't mean to say at all that you do not know how to dial in reverbs - I guess I still did not manage to get my point across.
Let's take Sanctuary for instance, which aims to get you in the ballpark of an EMT 250 (which is a constant density algo) - but to get close to this hardware reverb, you need to have set several parameters within certain ranges and if you are outside these ranges it just won't sound anywhere close to what the original device was designed to sound like and chances are it won't sound very good. The original thing had a relatively narrow range, V³ has a much wider range and it's not difficult to make it sound less than nice. However without knowing the secret recipe to get in the ballpark it's VERY difficult to get there EVEN IF you are very good at tweaking reverbs. You simply need to know the recipe. And it's basically the same (or a least a similar thing) for all the algos in both Room and V³ - Sean has spread these recipes across several posts and blog entries.
But the generic interface basically does nothing at all to assist you with getting in the ballpark. It always stays the same, no matter what algo you chose. Also for each algo different parameters are relevant, other parameters might even have to stay untouched in some certain postion/range in order to keep you in the ballpark. So yeah, I love the interfaces, but basically they are perfectly counter-intuitive for what the plugin seeks to provide without any indications for the sweet range of each algo.

KVRAF
3565 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:32 pm

what about Melda MTurboReverb

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KVRist
419 posts since 10 Jan, 2017

Post Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:43 pm

Funkstar De Luxe2 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:40 am
For the record, I think their delay is particularly offensive sounding :-D
I mean I would respectively disagree with that :D Not least because it can sound like so many. Which delays would you rather use?

KVRAF
3565 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:45 pm

I tried valhallaroom yesterday and its kinda good

But it didnt drop my jaw

KVRist

Topic Starter

32 posts since 21 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:44 am

andymcbain wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:43 pm
Funkstar De Luxe2 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:40 am
For the record, I think their delay is particularly offensive sounding :-D
I mean I would respectively disagree with that :D Not least because it can sound like so many. Which delays would you rather use?
It's mainly a hardware setup I run, so delays consists of: RE-201, DigitTech RDS1900, lots of guitar pedal BBDs, Eventide H3000.

Again, I think the algos in the Valhalla delay sound terrible, like FFT with two few bands or something. All the fake ageing and drive settings are just terrible. Anything that changes pitch with Valhalla is the worst, most obvious sounding algorithm.

It's my experience that VSTs and the ilk, still do not compare to even moderate hardware. With few exceptions of course (those Lexicon reverbs, the Vertigo Sound stuff, Maag EQ4...).

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KVRAF
32390 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:53 am

How much of the Exponential reverbs made its way into Neoverb? I mean is it like a combo of R4 and Nimbus but with morphing and an EQ or does it just use bits of them?

KVRAF
3178 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:52 am

It depends very much on what you are producing (live recorded music, electronic pop, french canadian country music, etc.) so this is just my random thoughts on reverb plugins in general.

I would recommend you give VRoom and VPlate another go. People love VVV, but I think it's a bit much and too grainy so I usually just use it for over the top stuff when scoring. One thing I've found is that the valhalla stuff works very well at very low levels (where some reverbs would need more like 10-20% I rarely have the valhalla stuff over 5% and it fills things out nicely). All of the NI reverbs are great and pretty simple (well Raum has lots of silly and fun features) and they work well for regular mixing duties.
Another one that is fun in tons of ways is Melda MTurboverb. It can do all the standard reverbs and do them as well as anything. It can also do some seriously insane stuff with its algorithm designer.
The tone boosters reverb is great value for the money too.
Honestly I could get by with any one or two of the many many reverbs that I have along with built in DAW stuff. There are pretty few reverbs on the market that sound "bad" these days. Even slightly suspect and older reverbs can do fine with a bit of pre and post EQ.
I have used lots of flagship hardware reverbs and their software counterparts, and I really wouldn't spend that much money on a reverb. Tweaking any reverb to fit is a simple matter of some eq and maybe a bit of dynamics.

If you want an amazing pile of reverbs for a bunch of money, I'd recommend altiverb. The impulses included in there are amazing for all types of music and can cover at least as much ground as an algorithmic reverb (before you even count impulses from digital reverbs). This probably wasn't super helpful. Good luck.

JJ
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

KVRist

Topic Starter

32 posts since 21 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:40 am

Ah_Dziz wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:52 am
It depends very much on what you are producing (live recorded music, electronic pop, french canadian country music, etc.) so this is just my random thoughts on reverb plugins in general.
Absolutely it does. From the reviews and feedback I get, loads of people find the Valhalla stuff very useful. The modern sound of them just doesn't sit well with what I'd like to achieve. What I will say is that the Valhalla stuff is priced extremely well, and they do a good job of delivering support for such a reasonable cost. Wish more companies would follow suit. I wouldn't even have started this topic if Lexicon were charging ~$100 for their offering.

KVRAF
3178 posts since 2 Jul, 2005

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:39 am

I'd buy the lexicon stuff for that price too. I'm honestly not a huge reverb afficianado. I used the free epic verb plugin from bootsie as my go-to for years and got tons done. It almost always needed to be compressed and then ducked under the source and usually EQed, but it was extremely versatile for all types of sounds. I still use it from time to time just for fun.

What are you going for reverb wise? Just curious.
Don't F**K with Mr. Zero.

KVRAF
3565 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:51 am

those lexicons are nice tho. but 400$ i'm not paying for them.

KVRist

Topic Starter

32 posts since 21 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:01 am

Ploki wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:51 am
those lexicons are nice tho. but 400$ i'm not paying for them.
It does seem too much for plugins.

KVRist

Topic Starter

32 posts since 21 Jul, 2020

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:07 am

Ah_Dziz wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:39 am
I'd buy the lexicon stuff for that price too. I'm honestly not a huge reverb afficianado. I used the free epic verb plugin from bootsie as my go-to for years and got tons done. It almost always needed to be compressed and then ducked under the source and usually EQed, but it was extremely versatile for all types of sounds. I still use it from time to time just for fun.

What are you going for reverb wise? Just curious.
At the moment it's a Vermona DSR-3 (spring), RE-201 (spring), and TC Electronics Fireworx which I've spent many hours creating presets in, and some guitar pedals too. Oh, and a weird Viscount EFX-1. I've also used a few Convolution reverbs too, but I need more flexibility. I use some vintage plate reverbs, but they can be a real pain to get working now.

It's a creative environment studio I run, so I'm more interesting in a particular character of things more than a realistic reverb.

As a note, the TC Electronics Fireworx sounds great to me and offers a load of option. They are a bargain right now, I think I paid £100. Really recommend that.

KVRAF
1798 posts since 11 Mar, 2003

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:54 am

If you like TC Electronics how about VSS3? Don't think I've seen it mentioned yet. Can often be had for half price.

KVRAF
3253 posts since 20 Feb, 2004

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:57 am

I like the Denise Audio "Perfect" verbs (Room and Plate). The plate especially is very smooth.
A well-behaved signature.

KVRian
817 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:13 am

Funkstar De Luxe2 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:32 am
This has been done to death, I know. However, I recently did a trial of the Lexicon Reverb package and it blew me away. They are the best, most dense, useful reverbs I have tried yet.

I'm thinking very seriously about buying the PCM Total Bundle. This is serious money for me, but they appear to be the best.

Anyone else have a differing opinion or other recommendations? I keep having the Valhalla stuff suggested to me, but I hated the sound.
Densest high-quality reverbs are probably B2 and Voxengo CRTIVerb 2. Relab Sonsig-A didn't compare favorably to them in my shoot-out, though iirc it might have some more strange high frequency stuff going on which you could count as "density".

B2 has x4 oversampling too, which can take a while to render but brings out more detail.

Personally I like the sound of VVV a bit better than R4, but I'm wondering whether R4 or Neoverb would be worth it for less build-up of mud. Seems like for that purpose Neoverb would be strictly better than R4, since it has most of the same (or improved) algorithms plus fine-grained AI EQ for a starting point. Supposedly smoother too with built-in transient softener designed to smooth out the reverb tail. And the AI EQ helps reduce control resonances too, which should enhance smoothness. Maybe I'll do a shoot-out between the demos when I have some time.
Last edited by Ou_Tis on Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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