Massive X 1.3 update!

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRian
1047 posts since 11 Apr, 2008

Post Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:05 pm

octaveup wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:40 am
(Remember when it was released with just a static picture of an envelope, and no manual?)
Oh yes. That release was a complete joke. Lack of manual was the biggest clue that it was rushed just to hit the deadline. The snail tempo of updates is another clue that something is not going right at NI.


But of course, we will get updates: bugfixes, OS compatibility and that's it. Eventually, when they will bring a major update it will be 2025 and at that point, we will have better synths from different developers with the same sound quality as MX.

Ps.
I remember that when separate panning per oscillator was requested, the answer was that there's no space in GUI for another parameter... It was the moment when I realized that MX will not get significant updates.
Beware! The software discussed in this topic has unacceptable aliasing at -386dBTP but it can be fixed by changing the sample rate to 12Bit

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:10 pm

ScrLk wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:01 am
There is a +inf dB noise burst bug reported that hasn't been reproduced by the team yet, I'm worried about using it until then.
Indeed, that one is nasty, but very system-dependent. It also seems to be AU-only, not happening on VST.

KVRist
290 posts since 9 Apr, 2005 from Japan

Post Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:48 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:23 am
Komplete Kontrol is fine for anyone who wants to browse and load existing presets but it is not viable solution for those of us making our own presets because it doesn't allow the user to organise them into banks, nor do any tags created a KK get recognised if the same preset is then loaded just into Massive X. So this means in practice all my user presets, including those I have made and those from third parties are now in a disorganised list several browser pages and hundreds of presets deep. It also means anyone wishing to share or sell their presets has to put up with this happening.

Fact is NI do have the capability already to create both banks and tags for Massive X presets - this is obvious because the banks they sell themselves have them - so this is not, as has been claimed, about extra development time, but NI simply opening up the tools they use internally to do this for all users (whether this is in the form of an extra tool or a build of Massive X with that capability I do not know).
I agree with all of that. My impression is that Massive X was such an ambitious project that they were probably looking at delaying it by a couple years if they wanted it completely polished on release, and since they had already sold it as part of Komplete 12 — then delayed it by almost a year within that cycle — pushing the release back any further was not an option. So they cut a bunch of corners, shipping it with a barely functional preset browser and a UI full of placeholders. Still feels like a beta, but even in its current state I still think it's an incredible synth.

There are numerous problems with KK presets too. I have a handful of bugs I've been meaning to file. The most annoying one is that newly-saved presets don't show up until you manually rescan your user library. As of a recent update there's a new bug where modifying and saving over one of your own custom presets now adds it as a duplicate to the library too, which really reeks of incompetence.

I'm hoping NI has turned a corner over the past year or so and is starting to clean up the mess they've gotten themselves into. There seem to be some positive changes happening, but only time will tell.
Stormchild

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KVRist
61 posts since 24 Jan, 2021

Post Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:36 pm

octaveup wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:30 pm
If you bought a car and they forgot to put wheels on it, you'd be a bit annoyed.

For me, no midi learn, a pretty poor browser and no manual (though that arrived eventually!) in 2019 is the synth equivalent of no wheels - I just don't ever reach for it compared to the many many other very good synths out there, which is a great shame!
It sounds to me more like it’s missing a parking brake. You can still drive it around. You just can’t leave it somewhere and expect it to stay put while you’re not looking.

I guess that makes Komplete Kontrol a wedge that you shove under the tire.
I hate signatures too.

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 am

That's an apt analogy. You can definitely still drive MX around. You just can't have somebody else drive it instead of you unless it's through the 16 approved levers (16 macros vs MIDI learn/host automation), and it doesn't have GPS built in so you can't find out all the places it can go as easily (patch browser). :D

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KVRAF
5709 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:41 am

Yeah, it's funny how those behemoths seem to fold back into themselves like a kind of corporate black hole.
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ;-) ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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KVRAF
2008 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:16 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:41 am
Yeah, it's funny how those behemoths seem to fold back into themselves like a kind of corporate black hole.
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ;-) ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers.

Cheers,

Tom
:tu:

The writing was on the wall long before the private equity company stepped in and took control :wink:
Sorry - I don't use auto-tune....

KVRist
416 posts since 11 Nov, 2010 from ny

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:43 am

I worked for a corp for 16 yrs, let me tell you, they are all the same.......things that matter dont get done, and the internal workings are always a bloody mess

KVRer
11 posts since 1 Jan, 2021

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:53 am

pixel85 wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:52 am
I suppose that for the same reason there are not many 3rd party preset libraries. NI shut themselves in a foot because today there's an enormous number of bedroom producers who count on presets.
aMUSEd wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:23 am
Yes exactly it was a foolish mistake to inhibit the development of a thriving third party market and try to keep everything 'in-house' - completely the opposite of what made the original Massive so successful.
That's one thing I haven't yet understood. There are several very popular synths and tons of patches made yet there's no simple way to share and get them. Most don't even offer a good preset browser. NI does something with Reaktor or Ableton with Max4Live but both are way too manual.

My ideal workflow would be like this: Upload your patch directly from your synth, they automatically generate a preview and you could do some processing to tag the sound, you have to ability to earn points or money (only if you want to) if someone downloads your preset. On the other side, you can easily browse user patches out of your synth, preview them and download them for free, points, or money.
Obviously, the system could be heavily abused by a greedy company, yet the basic idea would be pretty cool in my opinion. Maybe the guys behind Unify get on the train :pray:
ThomasHelzle wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:41 am
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ;-) ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
You're giving me PTSD from my job :cry:

KVRAF
1591 posts since 5 Oct, 2003

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:04 am

I like some features from u-he browser and arturia browser. Some combination of the best of each would be good. To me, the KK "wrapper" has always seem to add unnecessary complications.

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KVRAF
18455 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:43 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:41 am
Yeah, it's funny how those behemoths seem to fold back into themselves like a kind of corporate black hole.
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ;-) ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers.

Cheers,

Tom
Speaking of smaller developers...

It is quite a comparison between MX and Vital. Vital can import user wavetables and has a capable wavetable creator/editor. It has fantastic MPE support (no synth is better for MPE). It has full parameter automation and midi learn. It has a simple but usable browser. The LFO's are in an entirely different league compared to the very limited MX LFO's. Vital has a great modulation system. And Vital is from one person and is available for free (I bought the Pro version to support the developer).

KVRAF
6593 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:47 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:43 am
ThomasHelzle wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:41 am
Yeah, it's funny how those behemoths seem to fold back into themselves like a kind of corporate black hole.
Over a certain size, even banal things that the same entity did before when it was smaller - and did it well - suddenly become part of a "bigger picture", some ambitious unified codebase or whatever or - even worse - get part of a "corporate strategy" like pressing KompleteKontrol onto everybody (what an apt name... ;-) ).
At this point, I personally no longer expect anything clever from NI.
There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers.

Cheers,

Tom
Speaking of smaller developers...

It is quite a comparison between MX and Vital. Vital can import user wavetables and has a capable wavetable creator/editor. It has fantastic MPE support (no synth is better for MPE). It has full parameter automation and midi learn. It has a simple but usable browser. The LFO's are in an entirely different league compared to the very limited MX LFO's. Vital has a great modulation system. And Vital is from one person and is available for free (I bought the Pro version to support the developer).
To be fair, you could put Vital up against most commercial synths...
And Vital is now Open Source.... :clap:
PC, BWS, Live and Studio One, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths + Eurorack, MPC Live, A4 and RYTM, PT, TD27 V Drums, Guitars, Basses

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KVRAF
21405 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:59 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:43 am
(no synth is better for MPE)
Ahem, Equator, Strobe/Cypher...

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KVRAF
5709 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:03 am

Vital/Matt Tytel was exactly what I had in mind when writing "There is much more fun to be had with smaller developers"... ;-)
Venomode Phrasebox was another experience lately where I had a lot of fun with a VERY responsive developer (of course, not a synth and totally different thing, but anyway).
In the past, Dmitry Sches and Diversity were like that for me.

I simply find that I enjoy something newly evolving much more - even if I may hit some snags - than dealing with behemoths...
The energies are much more healthy and interesting, the personal relation to the product is there and - if the dev is able to communicate - it's simply fun to feel part of something growing and maybe even help with that.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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KVRAF
5709 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:06 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:59 am
pdxindy wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:43 am
(no synth is better for MPE)
Ahem, Equator, Strobe/Cypher...
I'm with pdxindy there, the per-target envelopes in Vital are very intuitive and powerful.
And Roli is another very strange company when it comes to software...

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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