Why no DP/4 emulation?

[ghettosynth]

So here's a video that reflects a bit what I'm talking about here. This is the attitude that you're up against when you talk about emulating a product from a company with something of a cult following.

At about one minute in he tells you that, according to him, the DP/4 cannot be emulated.



Also, for those that want to gush some more, this is a pretty decent track that has DP/4 all over it, apparently. Of course it's not mine (it's not terrible), not trying to confuse anyone here, it was mentioned in a discussion on GS about the DP/4.

[AnX]

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There have been literally hundreds of millions of people entertained by the music and shows in those Casinos

i doubt millions of Barry Manilow fans are the target market for a software emulation

[ghettosynth]

nm

[Shabdahbriah]

Behringer DB/4?

[Urs]

Urs has one, has the chops, and has even stated that he's developed several products inspired by it. So ask him, maybe he'll make one for you?

It's been a topic that pre-dates the 2012 "announcement" of Zebra3, and it was called Uhbik-X for a short time. Mind you, at that time my DP was broken, so Uhbik's have not gone through direct comparisons. It was only restored in 2011 when I wrote the effects for Diva.

A lot of the things it does are available for studies in the so-called "Dattorro Papers", which I guess is a must-read for any music-DSP dev.

[zvenx]

Hmm.. I have a friend who lived just up the road from me when i did a lot of his mixing for him, he had a DP/4 (could be a +, i don't remember). He probably still has it, probably it may still be working (he still has a working asr10) for instance.

Even though i used it mixing for him, I honestly can't say i found anything special with the sound.

I used it on his stuff cause it was there, but there wasn't anytime I remember asking him to borrow it to use on my own stuff.

To each their own.
Always more a Lexicon and Roland (Boss) guy. I also had an Alesis Q2 (or was it a Q20). From memory these were what i used on my own stuff in my studio (I had an ART at some point. worse piece of gear i ever owned ever).

rsp

[jens]

So here's a video that reflects a bit what I'm talking about here. This is the attitude that you're up against when you talk about emulating a product from a company with something of a cult following.

At about one minute in he tells you that, according to him, the DP/4 cannot be emulated.



Also, for those that want to gush some more, this is a pretty decent track that has DP/4 all over it, apparently. Of course it's not mine (it's not terrible), not trying to confuse anyone here, it was mentioned in a discussion on GS about the DP/4.

Says "can't be emulated" then moves on to show totally generic stuff...

I think when you talk about emulating the thing you'd have to differentiate between two entirely different things:

a) the architecture and routing options

b) the actual undividual algortihms

Since a) is pretty much a trivial thing these days*, a video that wanted to highlight what is so special about this unti in a modern context would have to concentrate on b) by showcasing individual algortihms - which this video seems to fail at - okay, truth to be told I didn't watch the entire thing because I started to get pretty bored halfway in...




*when talking about individual plugins (i.e without the help of the host's routing capabilities, etc.), there is nothing more powerful than HOFA System, which completely pisses all over everything else, and since it is not very popular at all, this seems to indicate to me that people actually aren't really too much into power/versatility of this sort

[ghettosynth]

So here's a video that reflects a bit what I'm talking about here. This is the attitude that you're up against when you talk about emulating a product from a company with something of a cult following.

At about one minute in he tells you that, according to him, the DP/4 cannot be emulated.



Also, for those that want to gush some more, this is a pretty decent track that has DP/4 all over it, apparently. Of course it's not mine (it's not terrible), not trying to confuse anyone here, it was mentioned in a discussion on GS about the DP/4.

Says "can't be emulated" then moves on to show totally generic stuff...

I think when you talk about emulating the thing you'd have to differe between two entireyl different things:

a) the architecture and routing options

b) the actual undividual algortihms

Since a) is pretty much a trivial thing these days*, a video that wanted to highlight what is so special about this unti in a modern context would have to concentrate on b) by showcasing individual algortihms - which this video seems to fail at - okay, truth to be told I didn't watch the entire thing because I started to get pretty bored halfway in...

You did better than I did. I can't say much with respect to the unit specifically as, if I'm honest, the cultish attitude that seemed to be part and parcel with Ensoniq sort of turned me off even back in the day. I tolerated the Mirage when I had nothing else and I liked the ESQ-1, however, I never gave their processors much of a serious listen.

There seem to be some agreement on GS that the reverbs weren't much to write home about but the modulation effects sound good. If Urs' implication that much of the important detail of that is in Dattorro's tutorials (and also the ESP2 manual) then it seems like it would be possible to do a decent job of emulating those things, but, Urs' has already done that, it seems, with the Ubik(s) processors.

*when talking about individual plugins (i.e without the help of the host's routing capabilities, etc.), there is nothing more powerful than HOFA System, which completely pisses all over everything else, and since it is not very popular at all, this seems to indicate to me that people actually aren't really too much into power/versatility of this sort

Yes. This has been discussed before in terms of modularity and the perception of power vs what people actually use in their music. I get the sense that what people get all excited about are some of the modulation effects, but, that's also not that hard to come by. The aforementioned Molekuler, or, just Reaktor in general. Hell, you can use Urs' Ubiks(s) in the Reason rack and it seems that you might have most of it already. I don't know if you can still buy the Ubik(s) REs (ok, I guess not). But you can use the VSTs in any sort of similar environment.

I wonder if anyone in this thread, with access to a DP/4, has A/B'd Ubiks to see if the collection plus routing meets their needs?

The reality is, we're (you and I and others who needlessly debate) are the problem. We don't realize, when we should, that these threads aren't asking real questions. They're more like the Sears Christmas Wishbook pretend shopping. It's almost as much fun to imagine spending money on something that doesn't exist as it is to buy something that does. Even better, you can imagine yourself spending all the money.

[Teksonik]

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There have been literally hundreds of millions of people entertained by the music and shows in those Casinos

i doubt millions of Barry Manilow fans are the target market for a software emulation

Every major band and act has played Vegas at some point and many have been resident acts at the various resorts. Currently such varied acts as the Scorpions, ZZ Top, Sting, Usher, and Katy Perry have residencies at different properties.

Most if not all of the top DJ's such as Avicii before he passed, Steve Aoki, Calvin Harris, etc etc have played Vegas in clubs like Hakkasan, XS, Omnia, Drai's, Tao, etc etc.

Then shows like the many variations of Cirque du Soleil such as KÀ, Michael Jackson One, Mystère and Love which is about the Beetles, The Blue Man Group etc are all quite popular shows for the 42 million people who visited in 2019 before the pandemic (down to 19 million in 2020) and have actually been to Vegas and aren't simply perpetuating a stereotype.

So yea the range of Vegas acts runs the gamut of musical styles and tastes.

[Teksonik]

I wonder if anyone in this thread, with access to a DP/4, has A/B'd Ubiks to see if the collection plus routing meets their needs?

I've been wondering if Zebrify and it's four lane routing couldn't do a good job of emulating some of the DP/4's effects algos.

The reality is, we're (you and I and others who needlessly debate) are the problem. We don't realize, when we should, that these threads aren't asking real questions. They're more like the Sears Christmas Wishbook pretend shopping. It's almost as much fun to imagine spending money on something that doesn't exist as it is to buy something that does. Even better, you can imagine yourself spending all the money.

How is it any different when people lust after obscure synths like the Octave Cat or some other analog synth that hasn't been emulated ?

Because it's the magic word "analog" which automatically triggers gear acquisition syndrome for some people.

I see no difference in having the same nostalgia for early digital gear like the DP/4 or a hybrid like the ESQ1.

[AnX]

.
There have been literally hundreds of millions of people entertained by the music and shows in those Casinos

i doubt millions of Barry Manilow fans are the target market for a software emulation

Every major band and act has played Vegas at some point and many have been resident acts at the various resorts. Currently such varied acts as the Scorpions, ZZ Top, Sting, Usher, and Katy Perry have residencies at different properties.

Most if not all of the top DJ's such as Avicii before he passed, Steve Aoki, Calvin Harris, etc etc have played Vegas in clubs like Hakkasan, XS, Omnia, Drai's, Tao, etc etc.

Then shows like the many variations of Cirque du Soleil such as KÀ, Michael Jackson One, Mystère and Love which is about the Beetles, The Blue Man Group etc are all quite popular shows for the 42 million people who visited in 2019 before the pandemic (down to 19 million in 2020) and have actually been to Vegas and aren't simply perpetuating a stereotype.

So yea the range of Vegas acts runs the gamut of musical styles and tastes.

how many of the bands used that unit, and how many of the audience noticed and/or cared enough to want a software emulation of it?

[ghettosynth]

How is it any different when people lust after obscure synths like the Octave Cat or some other analog synth that hasn't been emulated ?

It's not, same same. Lust is lust.

[Teksonik]

how many of the bands used that unit, and how many of the audience noticed and/or cared enough to want a software emulation of it?

How many people who listened to records made in a major studio knew or cared about the gear used to make that album or even know what a software emulation is ?

I'd be willing to bet there are a few VST users in this crowd.......

Omnia.png

[GRUMP]

There's a DP-4 on my desk. A lot of our stuff is heavily inspired by it.

Indeed, they were pretty cool and they're super popular today. They are increasingly in demand and one of the few prosumer boxes of the era that still fetches a relatively high price.

I think that it's unfortunate that Ensoniq went out of business. They were definitely creative. That said, I also remember buying gear in the 90s and actively choosing not to buy Ensoniq because of some of their technical choices. The thing is, you couldn't tell an Ensoniq aficionado that these things were important, they were a bit too loyal for their own good. I specifically remember a good friend of mine, who owned a music store and loved Ensoniq, that I was choosing the K2K over the ASR because of flexibility in the synth engine. He spent too much time trying to convince me, without success, that a resonant filter in the effects engine was just as good as a resonant filter in the synth voice.

Ensoniq users were the 90s equivalent of the 90s mac user for synths. I think that they needed their own Steve Jobs.

Ensoniq was solid quality, but they had completely different sound targets. And sry - but the hipsters back then bought akais

[Teksonik]

How is it any different when people lust after obscure synths like the Octave Cat or some other analog synth that hasn't been emulated ?

It's not, same same. Lust is lust.

Then why not the same push back when someone lusts after old analog gear ?