Sequencer/piano roll Vst for easy tuplet entry

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KVRist
60 posts since 31 Jan, 2021

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:09 pm

Hello,
Unlike many other DAWs, Ableton is surprisingly limited in its piano roll grid options--either tuplets or binary (divisions of 4). The manual way of entering non-triplet tuplets, such as septuplets, involves shrinking a selection of notes (e.g., group of 7) into a bar--very cumbersome. Anyone have suggestions for sequencer/piano roll midi vsts that would be good for creating complicated mixed tuplet rhythms. Thanks, Sam

KVRian
1292 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:29 pm

Reaper is the best I have used for this. Snap to grid set grid to any tuplet you want eg 11.4/ 27.1 and that can be set as a keystroke. Has struck me as exceedingly strange how conservative tuplet settings in daws can be, many cant even handle Chopin or Grieg from well over 100 years ago

KVRian
1292 posts since 4 Jul, 2019

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:21 pm

Also found this for studio one which is quite neat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWYLusD5rxo

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KVRAF
21334 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:59 pm

Cubendo lets you establish any number as a cross-rhythm, creating a subgrid in the Key Editor (while leaving the main timeline grid as 16ths) for it.
And you may consider a dotted value for the grid there, so you may say '5-let dotted 8th' and obtain eg., 20 [4x5] in the time of 6/8, in essence a nested tuplet. It will not use the Score Editor to nest tuplets directly or in that obvious sense, tho. 5-let dotted 16th gets you 20:3/8. 5-let on a triplet 8th grid = 15 in the time of 1/4. What it will not give you is a visual where you cross the bar with a cross-rhythm, unless it may be reduced to a duple 'time signature-friendly' kind of a duration (eg., a 4 in the time of 5/4 value is the same as a duration of 5/16ths), as tied over the bar.

Logic has a way to force a nested tuplet but I forget the exact trick. IIRC it's establishing the initial 'let as though a metrical modulation has occurred (5-let quarter = quarter) and then doing a next level, but this was an intermediate step which is obviated in some way (ie., there's an object relationship but the tempo is reverted to or retained). I kind of doubt its score editor gets the picture but it is doable.

KVRist

Topic Starter

60 posts since 31 Jan, 2021

Post Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:31 am

Thanks for all the suggestions. But, I was hoping for a VST option so I could still work within Ableton.

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KVRAF
5518 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 am

With something like Blackhole/Dante you can. The audio is just coming in via your audio driver instead of a plugin...

KVRAF
1592 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:29 am

Get the Hindemith book and learn to play them in.

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KVRAF
21334 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:02 am

bit of an eye-roller, that remark
Some people want a display that reflects what they do. The actual topic involves a display of such, does it not?

I play things in I have to analyze after the fact they're so convoluted, out of my experience of training myself to do such things on impulse/improvisation, and it's good to be able to know. Also, a nested tuplet such as the fives and sevens (syncopated 7s) over a triplet half note in eg., The Black Page is very advanced. Even Bozzio took weeks to learn version #1.

And then there are ideas which are not necessarily playable, confer FZ Synclavier compositions. I personally do not expect to play everything I conceive of via a controller or instrument input or even close.

KVRist
67 posts since 8 Apr, 2020

Post Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:07 am

As I've just commented in another thread, check out HY-RPE2. If you like the step-sequencer workflow, you can set different sub-divisions for every beat (so you can alternate between straight 8ths, triplets, quintuplets...). There is a free version. If I remember correctly, the full version also allows you to record the created pattern to midi, or drag&drop it to the timeline.

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