Brainworx bx_limiter True Peak : let's discuss

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRAF
3638 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:54 am

plexuss wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:22 am
It relies on “Selective Oversampling” (SOS), to employ oversampling only where it actually improves the signal, and to avoid it where it has been found to compromise the sound. Coupled with its “Advanced Look-Ahead” design, it is able to deliver tighter, more accurate low end and better stereo imaging than any other true peak limiter around, even at extreme settings.
Perhaps this is how they are able to such highly compressed loudness out of it although I am not sure how the two can be correalated. It does appear to be one of the loudest limiters I know of.
ithat's still a lot of marketing stuff.
i'm not sure how that would work. How you selectively oversample?
Change oversampling frequency based on amount of high frequencies? Only oversample parts of the plugin (why would that be of any benefit)? Multi-band?
Neither of these feels like increasing transparency tho.

I tested it against Elephant and it's so close to EL-C i managed to get about 15dB of cancellation by tweaking it for 1 minute.
I don't go for limiter alone for loudness anyway, clippers and compressors before hitting the limiter always.
I also don't think it's the cleanest - compared to some Elephant and Pro-L2 algos it breaks up quicker.

I don't think it's -bad-, i just don't find it in any way special.
plexuss wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:43 pm
XL is PA distortion algo found on earlier products.
thanks for the correction. so it kinda boosts the level beside subtle saturation, which is why dynamic profile changes when cranking XL. Not too fond of that - i prefer gain staged saturation when mastering.

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KVRAF
4248 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:05 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:54 am
plexuss wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:22 am
It relies on “Selective Oversampling” (SOS), to employ oversampling only where it actually improves the signal, and to avoid it where it has been found to compromise the sound. Coupled with its “Advanced Look-Ahead” design, it is able to deliver tighter, more accurate low end and better stereo imaging than any other true peak limiter around, even at extreme settings.
Perhaps this is how they are able to such highly compressed loudness out of it although I am not sure how the two can be correalated. It does appear to be one of the loudest limiters I know of.
that's still a lot of marketing stuff. i'm not sure how that would work. How you selectively oversample?
Change oversampling frequency based on amount of high frequencies? Only oversample parts of the plugin (why would that be of any benefit)? Multi-band? Neither of these feels like increasing transparency tho.
I am not sure about it either, as a useful/valuable feature. Thinking it through, the only benefit I can see is lower CPU usage by only engaging higher internal sample rates when necessary. But I do not see how this can have a significant impact on the audio quality so as to say "it is able to deliver tighter, more accurate low end and better stereo imaging than any other true peak limiter around" based on "selective oversampling". Just seems like empty hype to me.
Ploki wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:54 am
plexuss wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:43 pm
XL is PA distortion algo found on earlier products.
thanks for the correction. so it kinda boosts the level beside subtle saturation, which is why dynamic profile changes when cranking XL. Not too fond of that - i prefer gain staged saturation when mastering.
It's simple static harmonic distortion is all. Loudness and audio quality are mutually exclusive so those looking for loudness would likely be ok with XL because it increases LUFS by a couple dB at the expense of audio quality.

This is not a limiter for audio quality, like say Limitless, this is a limiter for loudness (and corresponding decrease in audio quality).

KVRAF
3638 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:20 am

plexuss wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:05 am

I am also not sure about this SOS feature. Increasing OS mitigates aliasing and ISPs at the cost of CPU. Perhaps it determines when it needs to run OS through a look-ahead process (also mentioend in the marketing hype). But why...? The only henefit I can see in not related to audio quality but rather CPU. PA says in the SOS section "it is able to deliver tighter, more accurate low end and better stereo imaging than any other true peak limiter around, even at extreme settings. It is a rockstar in preserving transients while increasing density and loudness."

I don't get how changing OS in real-time can "increase tightness and accuracy in the low end, provide better stereo imaging and preserving transients, etc" but I am happy to learn how this works from someone that knows. Otherwise I think its just hype.
Yeah, exactly.
i mean, i did some "on the fly" resampling in Max... But that was for saving CPU or creative FX.
I don't see how it would benefit a master limiter. You don't use 25 of them.
Also, i generally never experienced oversampling causing low-end issues - it's usually high end issues.

As far as i tested it does catch ISPs fairly reliably.

KVRian
531 posts since 13 May, 2015

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:48 pm

I notice Plug-in Boutique are selling this. Is this the first time for a Brainworx plug? Wonder how long before it’s $29 on PB.

KVRian
942 posts since 16 Jan, 2018 from Portland, OR USA

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:53 pm

SHall1000 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:48 pm
I notice Plug-in Boutique are selling this. Is this the first time for a Brainworx plug? Wonder how long before it’s $29 on PB.
...Someone needs gas/insurance money quick... :hihi:

I think it's the first time, yes. Though they've had some "contracts" with PreSonus in the past (free this and that)... I guess they may be looking into this avenue as another source of getting more sales. I wonder if they're reviewing agreements with 3rd-party developers as well (it was kind of strange, personally, seeing Reimund Dratwa coming back for the Neold projects...)
“In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.”

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KVRian
1278 posts since 25 Apr, 2009 from France

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:27 pm

Well... I'll keep using DMG Limitless... :D

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KVRAF
4248 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:02 pm

I have to say... when bx_limterTP is set to crush it sounds pretty good. I've tried it compared to Nugen ISL2 and SIR Standard Clip and limiterTP had a unique sound, very usable. ISL2 was very transparent with the same amount of gain and crushing. Standard Clip had too much distortion on it - I could get it to be less distorted than limiterTP but it didnt sound as good. This is with a drum track or a bass sequencer track. What's nice about limiterTP is that it seems to crush the audio in an authentic way - with both sources the tell-tale sign of true limiting is when the reverb floor is brought up in level close to the source. limiterTP does this, where as ISL and Standrd did not. I have other limiters to try.

Try really crushing some audio with it and see what you think. As a regular limiter I don't think it bring anything to the table (so far).

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KVRist
271 posts since 17 Sep, 2020

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:26 pm

Probably worth a punt... if you hadn't got a decent limiter. But who doesn't have one these days?

KVRAF
3008 posts since 25 Mar, 2016 from Seattle

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:54 pm

Effectsworks wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:26 pm
Probably worth a punt... if you hadn't got a decent limiter. But who doesn't have one these days?
Worth a punt at $249???
That’s out of my punting range... ;)

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KVRAF
4248 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:56 pm

simmo75 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:54 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:26 pm
Probably worth a punt... if you hadn't got a decent limiter. But who doesn't have one these days?
Worth a punt at $249???
That’s out of my punting range... ;)
I noticed the regular price is still within Elton John's budget.

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KVRAF
2515 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:23 pm

What’s the latency like? Quite a lot higher than the original bx_limiter?

KVRAF
3638 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:58 pm

320 samples i think

KVRist
313 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from USA

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:11 am

Effectsworks wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:26 pm
Probably worth a punt... if you hadn't got a decent limiter. But who doesn't have one these days?
I was just thinking this. Unless PA is just trying to fill in a blank to make their subscription plan more comprehensive, I can't figure out why they'd want to jump in with yet another limiter. I don't have anywhere close to all the limiters out there, but I already have far more capability than I need between just Barricade 3 and TDR Limiter GE. With the absolute ton of amazing limiters out there, not to mention the gazillion hardware emulations, is there even a market for new limiters at this point?

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KVRAF
3150 posts since 12 May, 2011 from Everywhere and nowhere, baby

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:46 am

Michael White:
brainworx - bx_limiter True Peak - Mixing With Mike Plugin of the Week
More a description. He usually does a second video to test it on a "real-world" track.
https://youtu.be/Hag_T4OV1qQ
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KVRist
271 posts since 17 Sep, 2020

Post Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:39 am

simmo75 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:54 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:26 pm
Probably worth a punt... if you hadn't got a decent limiter. But who doesn't have one these days?
Worth a punt at $249???
That’s out of my punting range... ;)
Sorry... It's very Elton. I should have clarified, my bad. I meant it's probably worth a punt if you were taking advantage of a voucher and the introductory offer.

$249 is an utter joke!! LOL

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