U-he repro vs phase plant

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
18754 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:20 pm

ghettosynth wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:33 am

Agreed, I wasn't suggesting that anyone had actually made that argument, only that the arguments being made were perceived that way.

Contextually there can be advantages to either. To argue, however, that controllers + software are equivalent to any hardware that creates similar sound glosses over the differences.

I think that the only time that this would be true is when the controller is, in effect, just the hardware controls of the instrument exported to a separate box. Even then, however, it loses something.
I have yet to come across a midi controller where doing sound design for softsynths wasn't painful compared to just using the mouse and screen. Having tried multiple controllers, I always go back to screen and mouse.

If I try to imagine a desirable midi controller, it might be modular so one can put together individual modules better suited to ones favorite softsynths and then a docking area for an iPad Pro that would display the selected VST GUI.

What hasn't worked well for me, is developing muscle memory with controllers with the usual bank of 8 knobs/buttons and pages of parameters... which of course change depending on the synth you are controlling. There are currently 9 hardware synths in my studio (counting euro-modular as one) and I have no trouble developing muscle memory with each of them because they are dedicated to their task.

I love Bazille such that if someone made a dedicated midi controller for it that worked well and it cost a lot, I would likely buy it. If it were essential for me to be all ITB, I might build a controller for each of my favorite software synths and have them dedicated to just that task. That could work pretty well for me I think.

KVRAF
12700 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:52 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:20 pm
ghettosynth wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:33 am

Agreed, I wasn't suggesting that anyone had actually made that argument, only that the arguments being made were perceived that way.

Contextually there can be advantages to either. To argue, however, that controllers + software are equivalent to any hardware that creates similar sound glosses over the differences.

I think that the only time that this would be true is when the controller is, in effect, just the hardware controls of the instrument exported to a separate box. Even then, however, it loses something.
I have yet to come across a midi controller where doing sound design for softsynths wasn't painful compared to just using the mouse and screen. Having tried multiple controllers, I always go back to screen and mouse.

If I try to imagine a desirable midi controller, it might be modular so one can put together individual modules better suited to ones favorite softsynths and then a docking area for an iPad Pro that would display the selected VST GUI.

What hasn't worked well for me, is developing muscle memory with controllers with the usual bank of 8 knobs/buttons and pages of parameters... which of course change depending on the synth you are controlling. There are currently 9 hardware synths in my studio (counting euro-modular as one) and I have no trouble developing muscle memory with each of them because they are dedicated to their task.

I love Bazille such that if someone made a dedicated midi controller for it that worked well and it cost a lot, I would likely buy it. If it were essential for me to be all ITB, I might build a controller for each of my favorite software synths and have them dedicated to just that task. That could work pretty well for me I think.
Yeah, I get this. I don't get along with mappable soft knobs either. While I find some aspects of the maschine controller useful, it's only for a subset of control. Basically I find the thing that I want to jam on and then twiddle that knob for a bit. I do use the 8 knob format for making my own simplified control schemes for more complex instruments, I agree, you don't develop muscle memory.

That's why I developed some templates for my mix controller. It's just a small old controller that has 8 channels with Gain/EQ/Pan/FX knobs. Each knob is mapped specifically to a set of plugins on mix busses so that when I'm doing a performance mix I develop muscle memory for the controls. I end up not having to look at it and the template works over all of my projects.

I have some the behringer knob controllers that have 32+ rotary encoders. They also never worked for me because of the physical layout of the controllers. I even lookup up whether they were self contained, they are not. I was considering removing them and laying them out on a larger panel in a traditional subtractive synth layout.

Dedicated controllers are definitely better than flexible controllers, but, as I said, even the PG300/PG800 type of dedicated controllers have limitations. Most of it can be avoided by just making them more expensive or course.

Rad Grandad
33181 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:45 pm

Hink wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:59 am
U-he repro vs phase plant, unless I am mistaken both are software, so this needn't be software vs hardware...it's not like in the end there will be a teddy bear picnic :shrug:
ignored :shrug:
A toxic person needs someone to attack when their ego is threatened.

Rad Grandad
33181 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:20 pm

ok...lets not go back there plz
A toxic person needs someone to attack when their ego is threatened.

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KVRist
212 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:20 pm

I'd rather read about people's experiences with Repro. Bought it a week ago and Hive yesterday. After 6 years away from software, these are news to me, and I must say that they must be among the best, if not the best, VSTis I have heard since my involvement about 2005. They eliminate some issues that -among others- brought me back to hardware after 10 years on software. There must be others around to whom these glasses are more than half full. Must say that I hear dedicated, if not fanatic, work in these. Bloody well done, Urs. Is there not anyone who shares my views that these are high quality and very inspiring VSTis? Phase Plant is surely not for me in comparison.
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KVRist

Topic Starter

188 posts since 2 May, 2018

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:06 am

Wow... You guys sure like to argue.

What I was getting at, is.... if you can program Phase Plant to have similar patches as repro and behave similarly why would you choose one over the other? I personally like some of the sounds out of repro and it is very easy to use. Phase plant is a bit more confusing but once you understand what is happening it is miles beyond what repro can do.

I personally like synths mainly for keyboard sounds. I do not use leads, basses, or fx. Mainly keys and pads.

KVRAF
7007 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:43 am

I would personally pick PP as I prefer the more flexible modular approach and I find PP more interesting as a synth. Others like a particular type of sound sound, simplicity, the quality of the emulation or whatever...equity valid. Whilst the big powerhouse synths like PP, Omnisphere, Falcon etc can pretty much cover any sound you will ever need to make, they may not be as easy to use (fun!) or quite as accurate (if that’s you thing) as a synth designed to do one specific thing well.

What you need/want is also based on where you start from. I have a lot of hardware analogue (Prophet 8, DM12, Boog, Neutron, modular etc) so have that type of sound pretty much covered. PP however goes a long way beyond subtractive so I find more uses for it.
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Grove Boxes + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

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GRRRRRRR!
11424 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:57 am

Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:06 am
What I was getting at, is.... if you can program Phase Plant to have similar patches as repro and behave similarly why would you choose one over the other? I personally like some of the sounds out of repro and it is very easy to use. Phase plant is a bit more confusing but once you understand what is happening it is miles beyond what repro can do.
Correct. RePro 1/5 are designed to mimic a couple of synths from 40 years ago, Phase Plant is designed to make whatever kind of sound you want. The thing is, though, that if you want to make those sounds from 40 years ago, it's a lot easier to do with the RePro synths than it is with PP. Personally, I own both and I rarely use either because I have other synths that are easier to get the kinds of sounds I'm after from.
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KVRAF
18754 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:00 am

Dallon426 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:06 am
Wow... You guys sure like to argue.

What I was getting at, is.... if you can program Phase Plant to have similar patches as repro and behave similarly why would you choose one over the other? I personally like some of the sounds out of repro and it is very easy to use. Phase plant is a bit more confusing but once you understand what is happening it is miles beyond what repro can do.

I personally like synths mainly for keyboard sounds. I do not use leads, basses, or fx. Mainly keys and pads.
RePro sounds solid and coherent with audio rate modulations. The filter is also gorgeous sounding with a lot of character and non-linear responses. In various ways, it comes closer to the aliveness and presence of analog synths. For example, Sync and PWM generally still sound better on an analog synth than most digital versions. RePro is providing that (or at least closer to it) for those who care. RePro is also like one big sweet spot. It is so easy to get good sounds out of it. To get that set of results it costs a fair bit of CPU.

Complex, multi-synthesis type synths like Phase Plant, have a far wider sonic range. But that generally means they take more work to get basic sounds as they are by nature not big sweet spot synths. Such complex synths also cannot afford to put a lot of cpu into any one module because they are complex so there are sonic trade offs. Phase Plant cannot equal the sound quality and character of RePro. It can also go many places RePro cannot. Most such complex synths have a stereo signal path. RePro is a mono signal path (before FX) cause the synths they emulate are, but also because it would double the CPU use.

There is no one synth that does everything. There are always trade-offs. That is why it is useful to have multiple synths.

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KVRist

Topic Starter

188 posts since 2 May, 2018

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:49 am

Thank you for the detailed and informative posts. As for the previous 11 pages.... Sorry about that

KVRAF
12700 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:49 am

When I read the title of this post I thought that it was a really dumb comparison. Who would compare a weird and interesting little synth based on genetic mutation to a hardcore VA synth? At the same time, it did seem like a bit of a conundrum, a choice between two similarly priced and interesting synths in their own right. I mean, if I could only afford one and wanted both then, I would have to think about that for a minute.

Oh, yeah, phaseplant, not synplant.

Got it.

If your room is moving right now that might be because I'm rolling my eyes and it's affecting the gravity of the earth. I forgot that phaseplant existed. The reason not to buy it is the irritating business model. Also, yeah, I'm not a fan of uber-synths. You can't name one that I like.

KVRAF
7007 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:22 am

Omnisphere?
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Grove Boxes + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
12700 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:26 am

SLiC wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:22 am
Omnisphere?
What's not to like about an overhyped and overpriced rompler with yesterdays technology and a fugly U/I? The resale policy is just the icing on the cake!

Rad Grandad
33181 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:35 am

Image
A toxic person needs someone to attack when their ego is threatened.

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KVRAF
18754 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:27 am

ghettosynth wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:49 am
The reason not to buy it is the irritating business model.
Yup... just charge me a price and that is the entire synth. Having a bunch of in-app purchases is annoying.

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