First off I'm sorry if this has already been explained. I read the forum and the manual (gain staging and all) but I somehow don't understand. Afaik Hive filters normal and dirty can be driven. But when I compare the drive to e.g. Sylenth or The legend it doesn't behave the way I would expect.
Let take a simple patch. 1 oscillator, saw wave and 24db filter, normal synth engine. Filter open. Oscillator volume set to max. Now when I crank the filter input I would expect some distortion. But somehow nothing happens. It just gets louder. Even when I patch 2 modulators to the input and crank it even further nothing happens. I can let the dirty engine squelch, but this is mainly with the resonance and this is more at moderate input levels. I would expect a filter setting without resonance, full open but high input gain to drive too. What am I missing here? When I have a simple one oscillator saw and filter fully open in Sylenth and start to crank the drive knob the sound color changes. Better example is a sine wave. If I crank the drive in Sylenth I get these beautiful overtones. In Hive it just remains clean when I crank the filter input with a single sine wave.
I'm sure I am missing something here. Could anyone please explain?
Explain the HIVE filter drive to me
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- KVRAF
- 2623 posts since 20 Oct, 2014
There are 3 engines in the middle top, maybe that affects the filter saturation...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 333 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands
Thanks for a quick reply. I am mostly talking about the normal ('ladder') engine here. I am aware that the clean engine does not drive.
Last edited by M-Prod on Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 333 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands
E.g. these (exagerated) settings. I get a clean sine sound where I would expect some overtones here. BTW the filter input here is so high the output is set too near nothing. I only get overtones with the high resonance settings.
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Last edited by M-Prod on Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
It's been 7 years since I have worked on this... Yes, the normal filter is linear in the forward path, surprisingly, from what I can see, it's indeed the resonance that is distorted. Hence the input gain is only important to balance the resonance distortion against the overall volume.
The dirty filter is distorted through each stage though, plus in the resonance path.
I made these choices because I found that very distorting filters don't really work well with unison/supersaw oscillators. The more characterful filter models I tried simply fell short, and back then it was pretty much all about supersaw.
They are however derived from idealised analogue models, which give them that extra precise nature (trying to avoid the term ZDF here...). Which in itself was IMHO an improvement over its competition back then.
The dirty filter is distorted through each stage though, plus in the resonance path.
I made these choices because I found that very distorting filters don't really work well with unison/supersaw oscillators. The more characterful filter models I tried simply fell short, and back then it was pretty much all about supersaw.
They are however derived from idealised analogue models, which give them that extra precise nature (trying to avoid the term ZDF here...). Which in itself was IMHO an improvement over its competition back then.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 333 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands
Thanks for getting back directly and so quick, Urs. So just so I understand it well. In Hive, a sine wave will not distort without resonance in either normal or dirty setting, no matter the input gain. I now understand I was expecting something that was never part of the philosophy to begin with. It's just that Hive's interface is so brilliant and strikes such a great balance between simplicity and complexity that it is slowly becoming my goto synth, replacing others, because it often gets' me where I want quicker. Not just 'that' Wavetable synth but also some 'bread and butter' VA's (not my special VA's diva 
). Filter drive though is often part of the sounds I make. And if it's a supersaw I just turn down the drive. Maybe I'm over simplifying things though. Oh well I was just confused I couldn't get it to work, and can now understand (and respect the reason why) it wasn't there to begin with the way I thought it would be.
). Filter drive though is often part of the sounds I make. And if it's a supersaw I just turn down the drive. Maybe I'm over simplifying things though. Oh well I was just confused I couldn't get it to work, and can now understand (and respect the reason why) it wasn't there to begin with the way I thought it would be.-
- u-he
- 30215 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin
I actually wasn't aware of this at all, I was pretty sure there was some kind of distortion... but d'oh. Must have had my "too much work on Diva" taste back then, opting for cleaner flavours.
Maybe we should look into a fourth engine. But I really have no idea when to find the time to do that.
Maybe we should look into a fourth engine. But I really have no idea when to find the time to do that.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 333 posts since 1 Jun, 2005 from Zwolle, Netherlands
I'm surprised other users never noticed it before afaik. I even saw posts mentioning how great the filter drive is in Hive so that's why I was confused. Sure another engine would be great, but hey, respect you are busy already implementing great features all around. I also own some of your other products so I will benefit from you efforts anyway lol. BTW Imo Hive got off to a wrong start. I kind of feel it went under the radar for a while. For me it did. But getting to know it better I can really appreciate the thought that went in the usability and balanced feature set. When I work with other synths I often think "wish this would be more like Hive".
[edit] I would prefer if the current filters (normal, dirty) would drive io a fourth engine. But I guess that would break current presets.
[edit] I would prefer if the current filters (normal, dirty) would drive io a fourth engine. But I guess that would break current presets.