Why still so much Intel?

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KVRist
386 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Thu May 06, 2021 9:31 pm

Gamer's demands will never be fullfilled. I know a flight simulator freak, and the software, e.g. a whole friggin copy of the world, will just keep developing and demand more power ad infinitum. Apart from that: Which programs do the mainstream user need that Intel computers cannot cope with?
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GRRRRRRR!
11613 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri May 07, 2021 12:26 am

echosystm wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:10 am
Gamers and enthusiasts are a tiny segment of the market. This should be obvious. I'm surprised anyone is even trying to debate this.
Small or not, they absolutely drive innovation in GPUs and CPUs because of the halo effect of having the biggest influencers on the planet spruiking your wares. After all, who is far and away the most famous YouTuber? If PewDiePie says something good about your CPU, tens of millions of people take notice.
Servers, government, schools, hospitals, offices and home users vastly outnumber the types of people who care about AMD.
Which is why OEMs make a range of processors, but those markets don't drive innovation like the gaming market does.
Dasheesh wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:24 pm
just as a reminder.... google and apple are besties... not micro$oft.
Really? I don't recall Google ever loaning Apple money so they wouldn't go bankrupt.
echosystm wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:40 pm
M1 beat any other laptop processor, on performance per dollar and performance per watt. That is not a failure.
No, it is pure bullshit. in very specific benchmarks, i.e. single threaded benchmarks, the M1 performs very well but in multi-threaded benchmarks, it is about on par with a 9th gen Core i5. A 10th Gen Core i7 or i9 will kick it's arse.
It produces less heat, because it has dedicated low power cores and has a lower TDP. It is the first 5nm laptop processor.
Who cares? Those are meaningless facts. I've never received a burn from my laptop so why would I care? It might be relevant if it meant an M1 mac was cheaper than an equivalent PC laptop but Apple hasn't taken the opportunity to reduce prices, they've instead chosen to increase their margin.
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KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 12:34 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:31 pm
Gamer's demands will never be fullfilled. I know a flight simulator freak, and the software, e.g. a whole friggin copy of the world, will just keep developing and demand more power ad infinitum. Apart from that: Which programs do the mainstream user need that Intel computers cannot cope with?
That's straw man, don't understand what are you even trying to prove with it?

KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 1:04 am

BONES wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:26 am
No, it is pure bullshit. in very specific benchmarks, i.e. single threaded benchmarks, the M1 performs very well but in multi-threaded benchmarks, it is about on par with a 9th gen Core i5. A 10th Gen Core i7 or i9 will kick it's arse.
M1 is mobile chip and should be compared to other mobile ones, so it outperforms every single Intel mobile processor on the market in both single and multi threaded performance.
It might be relevant if it meant an M1 mac was cheaper than an equivalent PC laptop but Apple hasn't taken the opportunity to reduce prices, they've instead chosen to increase their margin.
Actually M1 cost roughly the same as non-retina AMD laptop with similar specs, Intel laptops that are comparable are much more expensive than both, hence why OP made this thread.

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KVRist
386 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Fri May 07, 2021 1:18 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:34 am
That's straw man, don't understand what are you even trying to prove with it?
No I see you don't understand. Asking a question is not a proof, and what I am asking is of what concern AMD versus Intel is to the mainstream user since the OP asks "Is it because that's what most people want, simply because they are badly informed?". So I am asking why should they care in the first place, e.g. which programs should make them even think of switching to AMD? Is that really rocket-science to you?
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 1:55 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:18 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:34 am
That's straw man, don't understand what are you even trying to prove with it?
No I see you don't understand. Asking a question is not a proof and what I am asking is of what concern AMD versus Intel should have to the mainstream user since the OP asks "Is it because that's what most people want, simply because they are badly informed? So I am asking why should they care in the first place. Is that really rocket-science to you?
You are asked to answer to that proposition not go in endless philosophical loop, why should people that don't care suddenly care, they shouldn't, now answer, does those people affect the market?

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KVRist
386 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Fri May 07, 2021 3:36 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:55 am
You are asked to answer to that proposition not go in endless philosophical loop, why should people that don't care suddenly care, they shouldn't, now answer, does those people affect the market?
What? Makes no immediate sense to me.

Case is quite simple, practical and non-philosophical from where I stand:

Op asks whether people chose Intel computers "because that's what most people want, simply because they are badly informed?"

And I answer with a question: "Why should people even care about AMDs if their Intels do the jobs?" Have nothing to do with being uninformed. I am not going to give any other answer to a non sensical question. Has nothing to do with philosophical loops. If people need AMDs for whatever reason, they would probably go for them. It is like asking why people do not buy a faster car even if the ones they got are already reaching the speed limits. :party:
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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GRRRRRRR!
11613 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Post Fri May 07, 2021 4:13 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:04 am
M1 is mobile chip and should be compared to other mobile ones, so it outperforms every single Intel mobile processor on the market in both single and multi threaded performance.
Why would you only look at U Series CPUs when you can get desktop CPUs in laptops at reasonable prices? e.g. My Dell G7 has a 6 core desktop Core i7 in it and it only cost me US$1200, brand new with full warranty.
Actually M1 cost roughly the same as non-retina AMD laptop with similar specs, Intel laptops that are comparable are much more expensive than both, hence why OP made this thread.
No it doesn't, not even close. As I said, I have a considerably better specced Dell G7 that cost me Au$1680, brand new direct from Dell with a full warranty. To spec an M1 Air to a similar standard from Apple would be Au$2499. That's 40% more for a machine that won't perform as well and has a tiny screen. (I paid extra for a 17" form factor.) You just have to remember that nobody has to pay full retail price for a PC. It's kind of like Plugin Alliance - you just have to wait a few weeks for the one you want to go on sale or ask someone for a discount.
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KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 4:55 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:36 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:55 am
You are asked to answer to that proposition not go in endless philosophical loop, why should people that don't care suddenly care, they shouldn't, now answer, does those people affect the market?
What? Makes no immediate sense to me.

Case is quite simple, practical and non-philosophical from where I stand:

Op asks whether people chose Intel computers "because that's what most people want, simply because they are badly informed?"

And I answer with a question: "Why should people even care about AMDs if their Intels do the jobs?" Have nothing to do with being uninformed. I am not going to give any other answer to a non sensical question. Has nothing to do with philosophical loops. If people need AMDs for whatever reason, they would probably go for them. It is like asking why people do not buy a faster car even if the ones they got are already reaching the speed limits. :party:
That's some failed analogy, people are buying new machines or new fast car, OP is wondering why they choose brand X over Y, why brand X have still monopoly over market and all that, you clearly are incapable of giving simple answer, like no, I don't think fair share of people who are buying look for getting best bang for the buck, I don't think brand Y established itself in the market, I think they are used to buying X and don't have reason to change, I think brands Y popularity is passing trend or brand X popularity is never ending trend and all that stuff that is actually contributing to his thread, instead of your constant irrelevant contribution and bickering.

KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 5:17 am

BONES wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:13 am
Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 1:04 am
M1 is mobile chip and should be compared to other mobile ones, so it outperforms every single Intel mobile processor on the market in both single and multi threaded performance.
Why would you only look at U Series CPUs when you can get desktop CPUs in laptops at reasonable prices? e.g. My Dell G7 has a 6 core desktop Core i7 in it and it only cost me US$1200, brand new with full warranty.
Actually M1 cost roughly the same as non-retina AMD laptop with similar specs, Intel laptops that are comparable are much more expensive than both, hence why OP made this thread.
No it doesn't, not even close. As I said, I have a considerably better specced Dell G7 that cost me Au$1680, brand new direct from Dell with a full warranty. To spec an M1 Air to a similar standard from Apple would be Au$2499. That's 40% more for a machine that won't perform as well and has a tiny screen. (I paid extra for a 17" form factor.) You just have to remember that nobody has to pay full retail price for a PC. It's kind of like Plugin Alliance - you just have to wait a few weeks for the one you want to go on sale or ask someone for a discount.
Sorry, but that Dell is outperformed by M1 and comparable AMD offering (like ROG Zephyrus G14), understand your need for bigger screen and all that, but if we are talking performance, M1/AMD takes the cake in both thermal and performance for the buck.

sjm
KVRAF
2071 posts since 17 Apr, 2004

Post Fri May 07, 2021 5:38 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:55 am
instead of your constant irrelevant contribution and bickering.
Oh, the irony :D

But do you think that people are using Intel because it doesn't do what they need?

If not, then re-read the previous post you were replying to. "Why should people even care about AMDs if their Intels do the jobs?" is questioning the premise that people need more power than they already have. For the most part, they don't. While that might not apply to certain niche markets, it certainly doesn't apply to the vast majority of the PC market. There's no need to spend any money if what you already have gets the job done. Even if there are more powerful options now available.

Or to use the analogy in the post you were replying to:
TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:36 am
It is like asking why people do not buy a faster car even if the ones they got are already reaching the speed limits. :party:


This is part of the answer to why you aren't seeing higher adoption of AMD, others have also been mentioned. You might not like the answer, but it's a perfectly reasonable one.
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KVRist
386 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Fri May 07, 2021 5:46 am

Passing Bye wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:55 am
That's some failed analogy, people are buying new machines or new fast car, OP is wondering why they choose brand X over Y, why brand X have still monopoly over market and all that, you clearly are incapable of giving simple answer,
You are clearly incable of deriving an answer from my counter-question though it is logical and straightforward. I will try to spell it out just for you, but I have not much hope you will (read: are willing) understand. So far you have failed to use words like "prove", "strawman" and "philosophy" even slightly according to their meanings, besides from your unwillingness to grab the simplest of logic. So tadaaa. Here it is:

OP asks whether people choose Intel "because that's what most people want, simply because they are badly informed?"

My answer: People do not compare chips when they choose a computer, and apparantly many are running on Intels, which works for all practical purposes and thus give them no reason to switch to AMD.

You shit your pants in public by mystifying my counter-question, and you have done nothing but rubbed your face in it and pretended the smell comes from me. Good luck fooling those whose senses work :lol:

Seems like the poster above me did not get fooled, try again :hihi:
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 6:11 am

sjm wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:38 am
But do you think that people are using Intel because it doesn't do what they need?
Seriously, this stuff again, you guys remind me of this girl in the beginning of the video :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMG2fvCyTd8

Nobody is buying something they don't need and whatever they choose will serve them good, both options are amazing, difference isn't in quality, it's mostly in price and availability, don't understand why are you constantly bringing that straw man, did anyone here said that, what triggered both of you to even ask that. :lol:

KVRAF
2302 posts since 5 Nov, 2014

Post Fri May 07, 2021 6:14 am

TribeOfHǫfuð wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:46 am
My answer: People do not compare chips when they choose a computer, and apparantly many are running on Intels, which works for all practical purposes and thus give them no reason to switch to AMD.
Finally an answer, thank you! :tu:

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KVRist
386 posts since 4 Feb, 2021

Post Fri May 07, 2021 6:19 am

You are welcome if that really comes as a surprise. However, it shouldn't really, because that was the obvious premise of my counter-question.
Tribe Of Hǫfuð https://soundcloud.com/user-228690154
"First rule: From one perfect consonance to another perfect consonance one must proceed in contrary or obligue motion." Johann Joseph Fux 1725.

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