Exponential Audio Verbs: PhoenixVerb, Nimbus, R4. Your Thoughts?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRist
189 posts since 30 Mar, 2019

Post Mon May 10, 2021 4:27 pm

the vibe im getting after demoing a fair number of verbs is this:
R4 is a perfectly good replacement for the Lexicon PCR reverbs which cost 500 dollars
Nimbus is a great and natural room reverb

the pair cost 60 bucks right now. as a reverb hound my nose is twitching

AKJ
KVRAF
1898 posts since 2 Mar, 2004

Post Tue May 11, 2021 9:34 am

I do not agree. I got R4 and Nimbus as part of the iZotope Suite and made a shootout against the Lexicon PCM demo (on my list) and LXP (got it already). I must say that the Lexicon products were a clear winner - and, obviously, I would have liked it the other way round. From a vfm point of view I would say LXP (especially when on discount, got mine for 65) is the best choice since it features 3 of the 7 PCM algos. However, the room algo of PCM is far superior to the one in the LXP bundle. Mind you, I am not after the vintage Lex sound at all. I like the modern Lexicon sound much more which imo is natural and pleasing in a way that I have not heard in other reverbs. For a long time I was not willing to admit it, but it is as it is. Why Michael Carnes was not able to bring the same quality into his own products I do not know, but maybe he was just fair enough to not simply copy his own work for Lexicon which was probably hard to surpass.

KVRian
845 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Tue May 11, 2021 10:58 am

AKJ wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:34 am
I do not agree. I got R4 and Nimbus as part of the iZotope Suite and made a shootout against the Lexicon PCM demo (on my list) and LXP (got it already). I must say that the Lexicon products were a clear winner - and, obviously, I would have liked it the other way round. From a vfm point of view I would say LXP (especially when on discount, got mine for 65) is the best choice since it features 3 of the 7 PCM algos. However, the room algo of PCM is far superior to the one in the LXP bundle. Mind you, I am not after the vintage Lex sound at all. I like the modern Lexicon sound much more which imo is natural and pleasing in a way that I have not heard in other reverbs. For a long time I was not willing to admit it, but it is as it is. Why Michael Carnes was not able to bring the same quality into his own products I do not know, but maybe he was just fair enough to not simply copy his own work for Lexicon which was probably hard to surpass.
Modern Lexicon doesn't really sound "natural"---except to the extent people tend to find what they're familiar with "natural".

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KVRAF
5374 posts since 17 Aug, 2004 from Berlin, Germany

Post Tue May 11, 2021 12:18 pm

Some may find this strange... but I still like the old ArtsAcoustic Reverb very much and also like to use the Eventide UltraReverb. Since Relab released the Sonsig A, I rarely use the Valhalla reverbs (Room & Vintage), the quality is simply much better or I just find the sound better.
I also found 2CAudio to be quite excellent (I had a look at Breeze not too long ago). To be honest, I also found Lexicon PCM quite excellent but too expensive.... but no matter if Nimbus or Phoenix, I didn't really like the reverbs from EA :shrug:

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KVRAF
2523 posts since 31 Dec, 2004 from People's Republic of Minnesota

Post Tue May 11, 2021 1:13 pm

4damind wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:18 pm
Some may find this strange... but I still like the old ArtsAcoustic Reverb very much and also like to use the Eventide UltraReverb. Since Relab released the Sonsig A, I rarely use the Valhalla reverbs (Room & Vintage), the quality is simply much better or I just find the sound better.
I also found 2CAudio to be quite excellent (I had a look at Breeze not too long ago). To be honest, I also found Lexicon PCM quite excellent but too expensive.... but no matter if Nimbus or Phoenix, I didn't really like the reverbs from EA :shrug:
Arts Acoustic reverb and compressor plugs are so amazing. It’s extremely disappointing that they’ve gone MIA development-wise.

KVRer
3 posts since 2 May, 2020

Post Wed May 12, 2021 1:45 pm

I think the Eventide SP2016 is still my favorite reverb at the moment but at the current price the EA reverbs definitely have a place in my productions.

KVRist
170 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Thu May 13, 2021 1:02 am

It would be very nice to permanently demo LX480, VSR24, Cinematic Rooms Pro + one of their IR reverbs alongside Breeze and MTurboReverb, for months, and eventually buy whatever I used the most after months of playtesting. I use Sonsig and Nimbus a lot right now, and own R4, but I'm a little fascinated by how different these reverbs feel, sound-wise and use-wise.

and I'd love to forget about how I missed the one-day opportunity to get LV480 Essential for free from Relab...

AKJ
KVRAF
1898 posts since 2 Mar, 2004

Post Thu May 13, 2021 7:05 am

Ou_Tis wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:58 am
Modern Lexicon doesn't really sound "natural"---except to the extent people tend to find what they're familiar with "natural".
Well, regarding sound everything is subjective in the end but definitely modern Lexicon sound it is more natural sounding than the vintage algorithms. I would say, well set it can sound very natural (only surpassed by convolution). To me the PCM series algos sound better than Nimbus and R4.

KVRian
845 posts since 10 Jul, 2018

Post Thu May 13, 2021 7:18 am

AKJ wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:05 am
Ou_Tis wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:58 am
Modern Lexicon doesn't really sound "natural"---except to the extent people tend to find what they're familiar with "natural".
Well, regarding sound everything is subjective in the end but definitely modern Lexicon sound it is more natural sounding than the vintage algorithms. I would say, well set it can sound very natural (only surpassed by convolution). To me the PCM series algos sound better than Nimbus and R4.
More natural than vintage Lexicon, sure. But less natural than Nimbus I think... and Nimbus doesn't really sound "natural" unless you're not really paying attention to it (sort of hyperreal...). I don't think Nimbus is to modern Lexicon as R4 is to vintage Lexicon---it's more its own thing. I find it winning shootouts most often when I want minimal reverb without much coloration of the sound. CPU usage is also not too bad.

KVRAF
1803 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Thu May 13, 2021 7:26 am

AKJ wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:05 am
Ou_Tis wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 10:58 am
Modern Lexicon doesn't really sound "natural"---except to the extent people tend to find what they're familiar with "natural".
Well, regarding sound everything is subjective in the end but definitely modern Lexicon sound it is more natural sounding than the vintage algorithms. I would say, well set it can sound very natural (only surpassed by convolution). To me the PCM series algos sound better than Nimbus and R4.
what is natural sounding?? yes the SP2016 can sound, 'unnatural', but also quite natural on some settings.

but any algorthmic reverb will not sound 'natural', by definition??

never could work the PCM versions of Lexicon, in my case, very personal of course, don't own them anymore. they didn't work with my sounds, way of working, style of music. i don't know.

nimbus, R4 do. so it also personal, of couse, but also the music you make that let a reverb work....

TSAR-1, one of my favorites, can sound terrible on some sources. or terrible. it gives not the character i want, and you can dial in a lot, although not many controls, you can change the character a lot. but still, when it works (again work!), it is great.

the Nimbus is indeed sweet, gives enough, and you hardly notice it. (without you hear the difference.)

o you define it in a way, only surpassed by convolution. convolution reverbs, i use most for 'sounddesign', but also occassionaly for natural ambiance.

it is a long time ago, perhaps if use them now, they will get me, and work for the things i make.

the SP2016, when it came out, it didn't do it for me, only at some point, later, of course, you have reverse reverbs... but still... i got it.. ended up in many tracks.

when i think of it, maybe in the time i used the lexicons, i wanted the real unnatural experience. not quite true.

in one period, i acquired again a lot of reverbs, and they are used. for me, the choice depends on the source.

o well, i think a never-ending discussion. if they work for you, it is only great that have found the reverbs, to your liking.

i have found mine.

EDIT: from the 'lexicon time', i still have the IKM, CSR reverbs... i use them not that often, as i did, i have also more options now. but they, were my go to reverbs for quite some time. still do sound great, to me.
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