As I perceive it, both songs use a II-IV-I-V chord progression, the melody comes down to the same (key) notes. Although there is a slight difference in interpretation, the lines are basically the same.shawshawraw wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:32 pmAre you sure? Wonderwall stays strictly in the scale notes.
Chord progressions and song structure
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excuse me please excuse me please https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=427648
- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
I heardexcuse me please wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:52 pm As I perceive it, both songs use a II-IV-I-V chord progression, the melody comes down to the same (key) notes. Although there is a slight difference in interpretation, the lines are basically the same.
Em | G | D | E (4th time F# to go back to Bm)
in the Catapult song. The 4th bars are modulating.
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
But the fourth bar of the melody goes: | G - F# E - - - - |shawshawraw wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:01 pmI heardexcuse me please wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 1:52 pm As I perceive it, both songs use a II-IV-I-V chord progression, the melody comes down to the same (key) notes. Although there is a slight difference in interpretation, the lines are basically the same.
Em | G | D | E (4th time F# to go back to Bm)
in the Catapult song. The 4th bars are modulating.
That would turn the fourth chord to a E7#9 (Hendrix') chord; as the G is a #9 of the E7 chord.
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
PS try this trick to figure out how the melody works with the chords as it comes to the harmony of the song (in chords):
| Em - - - ÷ | G - - - ÷ | D - - - ÷ | G - D A ÷ |
- eight note
÷ 4x eight note (just to be sure of the time indication).
Notice that the melody of the fourth bar G F# E and the chords G D A. The melody goes down, the chords go up in 5ths, that's why it is so hard to follow
Took me ages to figure out by myself.
| Em - - - ÷ | G - - - ÷ | D - - - ÷ | G - D A ÷ |
- eight note
÷ 4x eight note (just to be sure of the time indication).
Notice that the melody of the fourth bar G F# E and the chords G D A. The melody goes down, the chords go up in 5ths, that's why it is so hard to follow
Took me ages to figure out by myself.
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
You're right!!!excuse me please wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:30 pm
But the fourth bar of the melody goes: | G - F# E - - - - |
That would turn the fourth chord to a E7#9 (Hendrix') chord; as the G is a #9 of the E7 chord.
Listened again, this should be the go:
E7 (can't really tell G# or G; so it's E7 haha) | G6 | D | A7
E7 | G6 | D | B7
E7 | G6 | D | A7
E7 | G6 | D | F#7
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
I don't think the chords are going up. It'd be a super drastic motion packed in 3 consecutive beats.excuse me please wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pmNotice that the melody of the fourth bar G F# E and the chords G D A. The melody goes down, the chords go up in 5ths, that's why it is so hard to follow
I'm now understanding the progression as a blues thing, E7=I7 and A7=IV7 (the G in melody of "show" is the b3 note thus the color - guess it's also where I confused as b3=#9). A super cool one that I'm not quite used to!
Last edited by shawshawraw on Thu May 13, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
Another trick (up in fifths):
G D A E B F#
B F# C# G# D# A#
As you can see the missing notes are the F and C, B and F# are double.
C G D A E B
E B F# C# G# D# (Bb/F are missing, E/B double)
But now down (in fourths):
F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
A D G C F Bb (E/B are missing, Bb/F double)
Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb
D G C F Bb Eb (A/E are missing, Eb/Bb double)
Mind boggling, innit?
NB these are only the major chords. The minor chords... I'd rather not start about it
G D A E B F#
B F# C# G# D# A#
As you can see the missing notes are the F and C, B and F# are double.
C G D A E B
E B F# C# G# D# (Bb/F are missing, E/B double)
But now down (in fourths):
F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
A D G C F Bb (E/B are missing, Bb/F double)
Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb
D G C F Bb Eb (A/E are missing, Eb/Bb double)
Mind boggling, innit?
NB these are only the major chords. The minor chords... I'd rather not start about it
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
PS the chords are based on the circle of fifths. I tried to explain the up and down principle behind harmony. In that sense I mentioned G D A go up.
Giddy up go, so to speak
Giddy up go, so to speak
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
Oh god, my mind never gets the circle of 5ths. I don't hear it that way... a little too scientific! (I know it's scientifically correct, though!)
- KVRAF
- 4881 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki
If that feels ”scientific” (or should you say theoretical) to you, you shouldn’t even look at the serialism, not to mention post-serialism.shawshawraw wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 4:34 pm Oh god, my mind never gets the circle of 5ths. I don't hear it that way... a little too scientific! (I know it's scientifically correct, though!)
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
I don't get it either, but let's say I am on my way after 4 decades of juggling with structure, notes, harmony, you name it lol
However, I'm sure we are talking about different compositions as it comes to the compared songs. It's all very subtle, the possibilities are endless. If you find another catchy progression and turn it to the House of the Rising Sun... (which starts with the same chords) well, I think you get my drift haha
The fact that Oasis could progress from the catchy Catapult progression says enough. Btw both songs obviously refer strongly to the Beatles. These guys knew what they were doing, just saying
However, I'm sure we are talking about different compositions as it comes to the compared songs. It's all very subtle, the possibilities are endless. If you find another catchy progression and turn it to the House of the Rising Sun... (which starts with the same chords) well, I think you get my drift haha
The fact that Oasis could progress from the catchy Catapult progression says enough. Btw both songs obviously refer strongly to the Beatles. These guys knew what they were doing, just saying
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
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- KVRAF
- 1631 posts since 10 Oct, 2018
Try to figure out the chords of this song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbi_YjpA-Y
Another one:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVjnBo96Ug
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbi_YjpA-Y
Another one:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVjnBo96Ug
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
Haha, sayin' that "scientific" because I really don't hear that way.
An example, Beatles 'All you need is love'. Chords are G A7 | D. If I did hear "I V/V | V", I'd happily use the circle of 5ths. But I can't. I'm always hearing "I II | V", where the #4 paints the color of intention, which I can use and copy over. The ears only have memory and no eyes, so until reaching the V, you can't tell II is V/V. (Like, what if it's G A7 | C ?)
But of course, everybody hears things differently! I'm not yet keen to look at serialism...
- KVRist
- 392 posts since 4 Aug, 2020 from Montreal, Canada
Haha, I have absolute pitch so I cheat! My rough go:excuse me please wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:06 pm Try to figure out the chords of this song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DEbi_YjpA-Y
Another one:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVjnBo96Ug
Killing me soft
Fm7 | Bbm7 | Eb7 | Ab
Fm7 | Bb7/D | Eb | Db
Ab | Db | Gb | F
Verses are iim7 V9 then I or vi etc.
Dock of the bay
G | B7 | C | A7
G | B7 | C | A7
G | EMaj9 (to check further) | G | EMaj9
G | A7 | G | D
G D | C7 | G D | C7
G D | C G | F | D