Live 11!

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KVRAF
3391 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed May 12, 2021 11:52 pm

Oh, and Live never used to crash before Max4Live and v8. I mean the five versions before 8 I owned crashes combined would be any version after 8. It's still a pretty stable DAW though.

KVRAF
7413 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Thu May 13, 2021 1:04 am

I think 11 may be the most stable version I have used, as in no matter what I do with MAX et al it hasn't even looked troubled let alone fallen over. It is also just feeling responsive. There really has been a lot of 'under the hood' stuff going on (as Antic suggested, true MAX integration as evidenced by the way MAX can now address DAW features and visa versa)

They are now building on what appear to be very firm foundations...
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
1794 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Thu May 13, 2021 1:37 am

PieBerger wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:33 pm
Live 10 was and is solid for me, I kept using the beta for it's entire life cycle, until more recently because I wanted to share projects with other non-beta users. I had some crashes, but for a beta it was robust. My experience with the Live 11 beta has also been positive, again I experience some crashes as to be expected, but overall it was robust and the crash recovery worked 100%.

The Live 11 commercial release isn't playing nice on my system though. I lost half a day's work because of a crash that didn't recover; it just completely skipped the process, no recovery, no bug report, nothing. Pretty disappointing and kind of put me off using it. I tried it again last night, opening a project I made in Live 10 I've been working on recently and so many of the channels had problems, it just wasn't worth my time to try and found/fix them. Not the end of the world though; I can just finish the track in 10.

What was your issue with the database in 11 and how did you fix it?
there were double entries of waves plugins. i don't remember (a phrase that in my country, will evoke jokes, because the 'premier', minister-president, can't remember things, that seem unlikely that you can't remember them..).

i repeat, don't know which DAW suffered from this, and perhaps there was already a problem, with last update, that vitamin didn't load in live 11.
so i let waves central (that isn't bad, it works quite wel... perhaps the databases gave wrong reports..), rebuild, to be certain, the shells, let them delete them, and build them again.

but live 11 wouldn't load vitamin stereo... although it was listed... so my project missed an important plugin (used for sounddesign..).

the simple solution, and perhaps others can benefit from it;

how to reconstruct the plugin database within live 10/11 (and 9);

go to preferences, plugin tab;
on windows press - ALT (and hold..) and then click on 'Rescan' .
it rebuilds the database.


and yes vitamin, and other, all version 12 plugins, by the way, could be loaded again.

only the project wouldn't load anymore.. now that problem is gone, can be a problem with the RRP (reason rack plugin). strange, it was a live 10 suite, project. the track/song is finished, but the samples i made, suffered, from -sometimes- erratic distortions, more click-distortions.
it became an obession..

and in the end i rebuild the project, and also some sounds/tracks. o well..

what happened there i don't know. it works now. didn't do anything.

but, the as you say, commercial release, beside this problem, that is gone now... is in my case rock solid. i am sorry to hear, that you last a half days work. (i am obsessive saver... i am come from the cassette-time, as storage.. and floppy diskes, the big ones, afterwards.. never rely reliable..)

it depends also on workflow, perhaps my workflow, my projects aren't that complex, if you count devices/plugins, they are complex in other ways..

(databases are always difficult, they must keep track, but in a way they double what is on your system, yes only as a database. some databases can loose track. it is inherent to databases that keep track of 'real stuff', that this can happen.)

there seem to be problem with large projects, already adressed in the beta, if i remember correctly.
machinesworking wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:50 pm
I wish I could say the same. I started in Digital Performer, got Reason for it's at the time low CPU using synths etc. rewired in. Switched to Logic for years. Bought Ableton Live around v3, and used it alongside Logic then DP again.Then MPE came along and I'm using Live 10 and DP10 at the time that both don't do MPE without cludge. Get a copy of Logic again and look into Reaper and Bitwig.

I'm now fluid in 6 DAWs as well, but I have to say I would rather just have one to rule them all, or rather be back to one old school DAW and one uninterrupted audio engine DAW. It's looking like DP and Bitwig, but Live is a beast these days. I really really like the MIDI comping. It's just smart as hell to do that. I've never liked Live's navigation though, it always feels slower to do things in Live than Bitwig, Logic etc.

Mostly though, I remember being super fast in Logic, and I'm fast in DP, because I've been on them forever, and messing around with multiple DAWs means i'm average speed in most of them.
i can recognize, perhaps, the average speed, but that is mostly for bitwig, i think, the latest addition.

i started with cubase, long time my only DAW, now on Cubase Pro 11. then came Maschine, in the 'form' of Maschine MK3, and a second hand Jam, that by coincidence was around the same time in a pawn shop, haggled...

with Maschine i rediscovered an old way of working, with samples, but could also extend it.

i am a bit, more than a bit, of controller freak.

so i went for the Push 2... with ableton live 10 intro... i liked it, but still preferred Maschine, at the moment, that i had the choice; sell it or buy live 10 suite upgrade in sale. i went for the sale...
and at that time, i made projects/songs, that were quite different than Maschine. i discovered my own way of working in live, and still extending it, and i like it now, so much...

Reaper i bought, o yes, that was DAW 2 or 3 (if you count Maschine...), because one plugin, Voltage Modular would not work flawlesly in the cubase version at that time.
so, more for one plugin, but use Reaper to make sketches, sometimes a complete song. my average speed in Reaper is still under average i think.

i forget Reason! when i bought it? second hand, reason 10, for a very low price. very low.
always had difficulties to add it to my workflow, so again a choice, sell it or.... go to Reason 11 Suite... i did the latter... and yes, finally, it is my workflow! and in a great way, i even use it more as a DAW... and the integration with my Panorama P1, wow...

harrisson mixbus 5 (and now 6), use it only when i need that sound. great DAW, integrates well with my MCU (2003 version). the MCU is only used for cubase and mixbus. why? ergonomics...

and when i bought almost a year ago a Roli Seabord block (finally, with how i work, i create my own sounds, in different ways, programming soft-synths, field-recording, making loops, or make sketch recordings, that i edit, etc. etc. etc. etc. sometimes from to DAW to DAW, wavelab pro 10, Spectalayers Pro 7, and other programs, like Crusher-X, or... or...), new... which at that time was already a catch, and for 100 euro less, than the Roli price... it was a catch with a catch.. the block was registered, it was solved in the end, a bit strange because it really looked perfectly new. a strange batch i think. no regret, saved me a lot of money, and 3 years warranty...
(added 2 Lightpad M blocks, second hand, that i bought at the local, digital markteplace of my country, for prices, let's say i could have bought almost 3 for one new. the prices are now higher.. second hand..).

o quite a story. sorry.

yes, i had to have, yes, now it comes; bitwig studio... i was granted an EDU license, by bitwig, bought it via reseller, so the price very low.. for MPE of course... and the other stuff..

so in way, quite natural development, also because my of working has become more complex, and experimental.

and when 11 live suite was announced, spectral stuff, i drool! the nature devices, and of course at last MPE! and more reasons...

so in all DAW's i can work quite fast, except bitwig perhaps, but i am working now in bitwig, making sounds from recordings, simple slice and drag to a sampler, adjust the sampler, add some effects (the new Silo, i use... not for all sampler instances). what you can get of one slice.
works great in bitwig.
audio track contains the recording, look for a nice slice, that works as someone calls it OSC-cycles.., and also within sampler, make very short loops from that slice, and you have another sound.. almost in the grain domain, that pitch changes etc. properties changes, because of the size.

so bitwig, poly grid, i can work with it fast enough. this sampling method. but other things...

still all have their function.

pff wow what a TL;DR.
machinesworking wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:52 pm
Oh, and Live never used to crash before Max4Live and v8. I mean the five versions before 8 I owned crashes combined would be any version after 8. It's still a pretty stable DAW though.
yes M4L was the the main crash factor, but at some point, did you mention it, or someone else, version 10.1 or so, it became rock solid. it startled me....

mmmmmh it is telling your life story in DAW's.... :dog: :dog: :help: :help: :D :D :D

but i have many nice starts for some experimental tracks, already with 11 suite. EMIT!!
or the Spectral effects, they can change sounds in a great way, a way i like.

on don't forget the third party M4L devices, by for example dillon bastan (who developed the nature device), and other devices, for peanuts, for what they can do. that add so many possibilities.

is it my bias, because of my focus now, that more and more experimantal M4L devices are developed?

that is also a reason why i like 11 suite. those devices, also from FS/Groove Mekanik!!

and Fors, Chiral!!!. (so google Fors Chiral, also on Gumroad..). wow.

and i think i haven't discovered all yet...

i will stop now. :help:

if someone has read this whole post, i provide care after reading.

in writing... :scared:
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRAF
1794 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am

SLiC wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:04 am
I think 11 may be the most stable version I have used, as in no matter what I do with MAX et al it hasn't even looked troubled let alone fallen over. It is also just feeling responsive. There really has been a lot of 'under the hood' stuff going on (as Antic suggested, true MAX integration as evidenced by the way MAX can now address DAW features and visa versa)

They are now building on what appear to be very firm foundations...
indeed M4L is integrated more and more into live, already it began in 10, but in 11, you see it at the page with free devices, already mentioned here, the integration has become more and more tight.
they did a lot under the hood.

only loading devices takes still a long time...
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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KVRAF
6427 posts since 30 Apr, 2019

Post Fri May 14, 2021 3:10 am

Had a bit of a nightmare today with my PC not starting up and I think it may have been related to Live 11 Suite choosing my Windows 10 One Drive folder as the place to put all the downloaded packs - all 160GB (uncompressed/75 GB compressed) of them!
Deleted them and will worry about reinstalling them somewhere else (if possible) later though if anyone already knows how to choose that location then please let me know.

User avatar
KVRAF
8891 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Fri May 14, 2021 3:25 am

WatchTheGuitar wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:10 am
Had a bit of a nightmare today with my PC not starting up and I think it may have been related to Live 11 Suite choosing my Windows 10 One Drive folder as the place to put all the downloaded packs - all 160GB (uncompressed/75 GB compressed) of them!
Deleted them and will worry about reinstalling them somewhere else (if possible) later though if anyone already knows how to choose that location then please let me know.
It's in one of the Preferences tab (Library I think?) and it's smart enough that if you change it, it can move the files by itself.
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

User avatar
KVRAF
6427 posts since 30 Apr, 2019

Post Fri May 14, 2021 3:28 am

antic604 wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:25 am
WatchTheGuitar wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:10 am
Had a bit of a nightmare today with my PC not starting up and I think it may have been related to Live 11 Suite choosing my Windows 10 One Drive folder as the place to put all the downloaded packs - all 160GB (uncompressed/75 GB compressed) of them!
Deleted them and will worry about reinstalling them somewhere else (if possible) later though if anyone already knows how to choose that location then please let me know.
It's in one of the Preferences tab (Library I think?) and it's smart enough that if you change it, it can move the files by itself.
Cheers. Was in panic mode so just blitzed the files, but will reinstall stuff later, probably be a little more choosy over it, most of it's stuff I'm never going to use.

KVRAF
7413 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri May 14, 2021 3:36 am

WasteLand wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am

indeed M4L is integrated more and more into live, already it began in 10, but in 11, you see it at the page with free devices, already mentioned here, the integration has become more and more tight.
they did a lot under the hood.

only loading devices takes still a long time...
It's easy to forget when just using 'other peoples stuff' (as I tend do!) just how ludicrously powerful MAX is as a programming enviroment...it connects to just about anything (not just midi which we are still missing in Bitwig) from controllers to video to lights to home made electronic projects! The ecosystem is huge, so it is easy to find stuff you want that someone else has already made- for example I just got a Monologue XD, quick search and there is a MAX editor for it right in Ableton! https://gumroad.com/l/OHOZQ

Max has its own separate large development team, so they are doing a good job with the integration really and MAX is getting better and more powerful all of the time. I just take it for granted most of the time...but seeing this new amazing VST 3 MPE tools and synths has raised my awareness! (Lots more at https://cycling74.com/products/max-features)
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

KVRAF
1794 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:09 am

SLiC wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 3:36 am
WasteLand wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am

indeed M4L is integrated more and more into live, already it began in 10, but in 11, you see it at the page with free devices, already mentioned here, the integration has become more and more tight.
they did a lot under the hood.

only loading devices takes still a long time...
It's easy to forget when just using 'other peoples stuff' (as I tend do!) just how ludicrously powerful MAX is as a programming enviroment...it connects to just about anything (not just midi which we are still missing in Bitwig) from controllers to video to lights to home made electronic projects! The ecosystem is huge, so it is easy to find stuff you want that someone else has already made- for example I just got a Monologue XD, quick search and there is a MAX editor for it right in Ableton! https://gumroad.com/l/OHOZQ

Max has its own separate large development team, so they are doing a good job with the integration really and MAX is getting better and more powerful all of the time. I just take it for granted most of the time...but seeing this new amazing VST 3 MPE tools and synths has raised my awareness! (Lots more at https://cycling74.com/products/max-features)
i don't have MAX (yet.. for the future...), but i keep a little bit up-to-date, MAX has many new nice things, great things. i mainly look at MC, etc. and other stuff for DSP.
yes it can work with controllers, and yes video.. as it is my goal, to work with vid/soundscraping, etc.. it would be the environment to make it..

but in mean time, i reap the benefits, via other people! Granurise is also a great example.

MAX is on fire these days, or i am biased, because i follow it only for 1 or 2 years, really follow it... and yes, not that frequently...

and the MAX editors of course for hardware synths, i get the emails...

cycling '74 is now owned by ableton, or? does not matter, or does it matter.

MAX is great, was great, i knew people who worked with it, impressive. M4L is one of the great perks, to get M4L devices.. and as i said, they tend to get more experimental, or is it again my own bias?

doesn't matter, also, i buy it, use it, and have pleasure and results!
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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KVRAF
32507 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:15 am

WasteLand wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:04 am
I think 11 may be the most stable version I have used, as in no matter what I do with MAX et al it hasn't even looked troubled let alone fallen over. It is also just feeling responsive. There really has been a lot of 'under the hood' stuff going on (as Antic suggested, true MAX integration as evidenced by the way MAX can now address DAW features and visa versa)

They are now building on what appear to be very firm foundations...
indeed M4L is integrated more and more into live, already it began in 10, but in 11, you see it at the page with free devices,

What page?

KVRAF
7413 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:16 am

Yes, Granurise is exactly what I am taking about, this is a commercial grade instruments made with MAX, and its great now they can be native VST3 and MPE in Live.

This one is also worth a look if you like https://www.audiobulb.com/GRAINSCAPE.htm

https://youtu.be/NvWbXQFnqNE
PC, Studio One, BWS, Live, FL Studio, Renoise, Reason, X32 Desk, Hardware Synths, Drum Machines + Eurorack, TD27 V Drums, Guitars & Basses

User avatar
KVRAF
8891 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:34 am

pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:38 am
antic604 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:36 am
I just got rid of both Live 11 Suite and Cubase Pro 11 (for good this time, I promise)
I want in on the betting pool!!
Just FYI, got them both back... :oops: :dog:

I really should be banned from here, because I can't be trusted :D
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

KVRAF
1794 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:37 am

aMUSEd wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 4:15 am
WasteLand wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:40 am
SLiC wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 1:04 am
I think 11 may be the most stable version I have used, as in no matter what I do with MAX et al it hasn't even looked troubled let alone fallen over. It is also just feeling responsive. There really has been a lot of 'under the hood' stuff going on (as Antic suggested, true MAX integration as evidenced by the way MAX can now address DAW features and visa versa)

They are now building on what appear to be very firm foundations...
indeed M4L is integrated more and more into live, already it began in 10, but in 11, you see it at the page with free devices,

What page?
https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/live-11 ... e-devices/
SLiC wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 4:16 am
Yes, Granurise is exactly what I am taking about, this is a commercial grade instruments made with MAX, and its great now they can be native VST3 and MPE in Live.

This one is also worth a look if you like https://www.audiobulb.com/GRAINSCAPE.htm

https://youtu.be/NvWbXQFnqNE
Granurise me like! great! also with touchscreen and seaboard blocks/MPE.. great tool.

yes, was just answering that GRAINSCAPE will be a device that most likely will be added to my granular arsenal, to the developer...

GRAINSCAPE has a nice approach, 4 playheads. (The Mangle can do it, but this approach me also like.)

great device again!
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

KVRAF
1794 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:38 am

antic604 wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 4:34 am
pdxindy wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:38 am
antic604 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:36 am
I just got rid of both Live 11 Suite and Cubase Pro 11 (for good this time, I promise)
I want in on the betting pool!!
Just FYI, got them both back... :oops: :dog:

I really should be banned from here, because I can't be trusted :D
:party: :party:
no! you cán be trusted to buy them back again. the cosmos is in balance again... :scared:
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

User avatar
KVRAF
8891 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Fri May 14, 2021 4:46 am

WasteLand wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 4:38 am
no! you cán be trusted to buy them back again. the cosmos is in balance again... :scared:
The guy I got Live 11 from had 2 licenses, so you might be onto something there ;) :D
Music tech enthusiast.
DAW, VST & hardware hoarder.
My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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