Fabfilter announce TIMELESS 3 !!!!!!!

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
KVRian
629 posts since 29 Oct, 2015 from Jupiter 8

Post Thu May 13, 2021 5:29 am

indeed. I was surprised that despite having multi taps, how similar it is still to standard dual tap delays as most stuff is globally and not per tap anyway, except for tap volume and panning. No individual HP/LP filtering, no individual pitch or other effects, etc.
Of course you can kind of get in the ballpark of that by modulating the global effects, but still the results are different.
But of course sometimes the workaround which is inferior from the technical side can actually yield “better“ results.

I'm not sure about it yet. It has some nice things like the diffuse effect and of course the EQ/filter is way more powerful now, but on the other hand it often feels unnessessarily cumbersome to use compared to it's predecessor for basic delay stuff because you now often need more clicks + the keyboard for what went smoothly with just the mouse before.

So for general digital clean delay i might still prefer Timeless 2 (except for the way improved EQ in this one)
The included effects can get some nice results, but in the end are imo merely just ok-ish and i think you can get “better“ results most of the time with dedicated plugs on the sends, plus you can get way more precise multitap workflow this way too if you use multiple instances / sends.
On the expense of course though that it's not inside a single plugin and thus not as fast and immediate to use anymore.
Can't speak for Relayer, but Late Replies is way more powerful for multitap (even the ancient PSP 608 is aswell). Both are lacking modulation for most things though.
And should Ohmboyz Infinite surface in a final form, it will most likely be the king of highly usable multi tap delays just by looking on it's GUI and features
“People pay good money for old stuff because they mistakenly think that the gear has more to do with the products than it actually did. And because it makes them feel good to own it.“ wise man on GS

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KVRAF
9045 posts since 3 Feb, 2003 from Finland, Espoo

Post Thu May 13, 2021 6:42 am

Yeah the taps in Timeless are just basic taps with no other features than volume, time and pan (all of which can be modulated).

You can however get some pretty interesting esoteric stuff going with these alone when combined with the XLFO or envelope/EVF, especially considering how different the two main time stretching modes sound (tape vs stretch).

I also highly suggest exploring the "range" of the Lo-Fi knob. It isn't just a samplerate and bitcrushing thing. It does a slew of things in different ranges of the knob. From about 0% to 10% it does very subtle thickening. After that it gives a bit of added pitch wobble.. and past about 30% you start getting some clear samplerate and bit reduction while still being rather "clean" (there is some kind of a built in AD/DA aliasing filter modeled) and past 50% you get into very obvious lo-fi territory and of course past 80% you go into "broken" territory.

Once you've explored the ranges, these different sweet spots get interesting as you can sort of "tap" into the ranges at specific moments using an XLFO as a sort of mod sequencer.


Timeless 3 also reminded me once again, as Saturn 2 did, how awesome that single knob Dynamics processor is. Please please for the love of god everybody, SPAM FabFilter and ask for that single knob dynamics thing as a free little fun plugin (or a cheap mini plugin!)!! I love that thing and have asked them for years to release it as a single little plugin! Currently I use Saturn to get hold of the dynamics knob but I'd rather have it as a single clean plugin without any added saturation (it is impossible to run Saturn 100% clean).
"Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of the idiot who said it." -an idiot

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KVRAF
15597 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Post Thu May 13, 2021 7:17 am

Processing an alto flute phrase from one of my chamber music works with a custom preset in Timeless 3 which uses long diffused delay (reverb), occasional pitch shifting/drive/LowFi and filtering, tweaking things on the fly.

https://youtu.be/gFxQuTyhyZI

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KVRAF
4430 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Post Thu May 13, 2021 7:18 am

bmanic wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 6:42 am
Yeah the taps in Timeless are just basic taps with no other features than volume, time and pan (all of which can be modulated).

You can however get some pretty interesting esoteric stuff going with these alone when combined with the XLFO or envelope/EVF, especially considering how different the two main time stretching modes sound (tape vs stretch).
Yeah - Upgraded the Timeless to 3, it’s OK but not fantastic. Effects are disappointing.
I need my Relayer, Replica Xt and a couple of other dealys besides this one.

KVRist
152 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Thu May 13, 2021 8:18 am

Niowiad wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 3:53 am
It's actually very easy to adjust the "taps cycle" for level/timing/panning, possibly easier than Relayer.

Image

On the other hand, Timeless seems to support up to 16 taps, whereas Relayer goes up to 32 and seems better suited/organized to manage higher tap counts, like above 10, at least in my opinion...

I'ts also not so easy (or maybe even possible, I haven't tried) to set an effect amount to the individual taps, as it's easily done in Relayer, which also comes with some effects not available in Timeless.

I already have/love Relayer and I downloaded the Timeless demo just out of boredom and pretty much zero expectations, but it only took me a few minutes with an initialized preset to get very impressed by how nice it is to tweak for experimental stuff.
The way you can set filter in the feedback loop (in Pro-Q style) in all kinds of shapes is a literal joy to use.
At this point I'm sure I'll buy it but I'm really not in a hurry.

I feel like neither replaces the other one. They have different functions and fundamentally different workflows which are naturally going to inspire and provide significantly different results.
And to me it's pretty much all that matters (aside from meeting certain sound quality standards).
Thanks for this! Also, apparently I missed an entire page of discussion here. I agree they’re not a replacement for each other; I forgot about the amount-of-effects-per-tap aspect of Relayer and the capacity to set up something as complex as ERs in Relayer is probably better (the diffusion in Timeless sounds great though!). I’ll just demo them both, I guess. I just can’t afford both :) so I’ll have to see what sits better with me with some trials. I’m not so much worried about any of these being able to do basic delay functions easily - for that I have my stock delay.

Thankfully testing Late Replies alongside the others will be easy since it’s a permanent demo. It probably does the “dedicated effects plugins in the feedback loop” workflow better than any other plugins, besides running Bitwig as a plugin, or something. That is, assuming I’ll even find it necessary.
Last edited by E_Anderson on Thu May 13, 2021 8:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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KVRAF
4964 posts since 23 Aug, 2014 from Boston/Cambridge

Post Thu May 13, 2021 8:21 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:17 am
Processing an alto flute phrase from one of my chamber music works with a custom preset in Timeless 3 which uses long diffused delay (reverb), occasional pitch shifting/drive/LowFi and filtering, tweaking things on the fly.

https://youtu.be/gFxQuTyhyZI
Simply magical.

KVRAF
8455 posts since 16 Aug, 2006

Post Thu May 13, 2021 10:24 am

bmanic wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 6:42 am
Timeless 3 also reminded me once again, as Saturn 2 did, how awesome that single knob Dynamics processor is. Please please for the love of god everybody, SPAM FabFilter and ask for that single knob dynamics thing as a free little fun plugin (or a cheap mini plugin!)!! I love that thing and have asked them for years to release it as a single little plugin! Currently I use Saturn to get hold of the dynamics knob but I'd rather have it as a single clean plugin without any added saturation (it is impossible to run Saturn 100% clean).
I'm waiting for the inevitable bmanic preset where you hook up an envelope follower or two to a few unexpected knobs and use it to create 3D depth to the sound. :wink:

KVRian
1150 posts since 23 May, 2012 from London

Post Thu May 13, 2021 10:28 pm

bmanic wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 6:42 am
that single knob Dynamics processor
This is the one weird trick doctors don't want you to know about :lol: My favourite and most common use-case, is to place an instance of Saturn after a delay or reverb (in a send-return configuration, project or rack/container in Live/Bitwig), crank the Dynamics to +0.5, remove some of the low end with the onboard EQ and and a touch of drive using the Clean Tube or Tape algo.

It brings up the tails so that they are full and present, even at low feedback and short decay settings. It's perfect for busy music, where you want loud repeats or a nice big reverb oneshot to fill up the space but not ring out for too long and interfere with later parts of the arrangement.

I also like to use it along with the Heavy Saturation algo, whenever I need to smash the living daylights out of something.
Always Read the Manual!

KVRist
152 posts since 9 Oct, 2020

Post Fri May 14, 2021 12:09 am

Sampleconstruct wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:17 am
Processing an alto flute phrase from one of my chamber music works with a custom preset in Timeless 3 which uses long diffused delay (reverb), occasional pitch shifting/drive/LowFi and filtering, tweaking things on the fly.

https://youtu.be/gFxQuTyhyZI
Oh my golly goshenheimer schmidt that is actually awesome. Vintage scary cinematic atmosphere adventure music, all in one package of on-the-fly tweaking. It’s not as simple as just buying the plugin but these are some greeeaat sales pitches

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KVRAF
15597 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Post Fri May 14, 2021 9:13 am

T3 can be an instant minimal music maker...

Processing a simple mallet sequence (Pianoteq 7) with a custom multi-tap preset in Timeless 3 which uses the time stretch delay mode, delay speed automation via step sequence, filter modulation via envelope follower (transient mode), tweaking things on the fly - things gets slightly wild towards the end.

https://youtu.be/CyvQkx601FA

KVRer
4 posts since 18 Apr, 2021

Post Tue May 18, 2021 8:47 pm

One of the best delays. Now with my Pulsar Echorec it will be ultimate.

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KVRAF
4655 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)

Post Tue May 18, 2021 10:43 pm

Dirtgrain wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:20 am
Anyone also own Blue Cat Late Replies? Does Timeless 3 do stuff that Late Replies cannot?
Thank for mentioning our plug-in. Since Late Replies can host third party plug-ins anywhere in the chain, there is nothing it cannot do... Even loading this one into its feedback loop :lol: .

KVRAF
3771 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Post Wed May 19, 2021 2:05 am

Blue Cat Audio wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:43 pm
Dirtgrain wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 9:20 am
Anyone also own Blue Cat Late Replies? Does Timeless 3 do stuff that Late Replies cannot?
Thank for mentioning our plug-in. Since Late Replies can host third party plug-ins anywhere in the chain, there is nothing it cannot do... Even loading this one into its feedback loop :lol: .
i don't see such deep modulation options in Late Replies tho (which is great on its own right, don't get me wrong)

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KVRAF
4655 posts since 8 Sep, 2004 from Paris (France)

Post Wed May 19, 2021 2:43 am

Ploki wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 2:05 am
i don't see such deep modulation options in Late Replies tho (which is great on its own right, don't get me wrong)
Indeed. But it includes a couple of modulation effects that let you usually achieve similar results (you can modulate time, amplitude, filters etc. using plug-ins). It's a different (plug-in based) approach.

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KVRist
221 posts since 9 Jun, 2020

Post Wed May 19, 2021 4:26 am


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