Cheap Headphone Recommendations

[ghostwhistler]

Apple ear buds, the old, wired ones sound pretty decent... Really, I swear this is not a joke ...
Compared to headphones in the sub 20 range those sound pretty good.

Earbuds are REALLY bad for your ears and prolonged use WILL do permanent hearing damage.
The iPod generation are all going to develop tinnitus as they age. People commit suicide over that.

You NEED openback headphones if you are going to be mixing for any length of time.

How do i know whether headphones are openback or not? I've never heard that phrase

[HK-47]

How do i know whether headphones are openback or not? I've never heard that phrase

Pretty much how you would expect based on their names. Closed back headphones have earcups with sealed/closed backs, while open-back headphones have perforated/open backs.

For example, this is a closed-back headphone:


While this is an open-back headphone:


Note that there are some headphones which look like the have mesh-like materials on the backs of their earcups, but are actually closed. But for the most part, if it looks like the back has openings, it's an open-back.

[andymcbain]

Apple ear buds, the old, wired ones sound pretty decent... Really, I swear this is not a joke ...
Compared to headphones in the sub 20 range those sound pretty good.

Earbuds are REALLY bad for your ears and prolonged use WILL do permanent hearing damage.
The iPod generation are all going to develop tinnitus as they age. People commit suicide over that.

You NEED openback headphones if you are going to be mixing for any length of time.

I would tend to agree that mixing on buds isn't ideal, but in a studio environment I see no reason why they'd be any more dangerous than headphones if used sensibly. Yes, the driver is closer to your ear - but you would reduce the volume to compensate and you're not battling with anywhere near the same levels of ambient noise as say, a commute.

I once saw someone wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD650s on a long haul flight... as a tinnitus sufferer, THAT made me shiver.

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

[starflakeprj]

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

Secondary reference? They are not even legit as the 10th reference. How somebody actually can mention Apple's (any model) earplugs in the same sentence as "good sounding" is completely beyond my comprehension.

And the Superlux headphones are soooo "plasticy". But I guess they had to save on some material if they, as people are saying, sounds really good. I doubt it though, but if they have a less plasticy model at a higher price (up to €100), I might give them a try.

My vote for the most comfy headphones (although a little plasticy) are the AKG K 701/702 (around €150) The Audio-Technica M50 headphones are nice as well (but closed), at €120. But you can't wear them for more than 30 min, as they are pretty uncomfortable, and makes you ears sweat

[andymcbain]

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

Secondary reference? They are not even legit as the 10th reference. How somebody actually can mention Apple's (any model) earplugs in the same sentence as "good sounding" is completely beyond my comprehension.

Maybe “reference” is the wrong word - but like any boom box, car sound system etc , they don’t have to sound “good” to be useful They serve the purpose of presenting your mix in the way many consumers are going to hear it.

[starflakeprj]

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

Secondary reference? They are not even legit as the 10th reference. How somebody actually can mention Apple's (any model) earplugs in the same sentence as "good sounding" is completely beyond my comprehension.

Maybe “reference” is the wrong word - but like any boom box, car sound system etc , they don’t have to sound “good” to be useful They serve the purpose of presenting your mix in the way many consumers are going to hear it.

Yeah, you are right, I have to agree on that. If you want your music to sound good to the largest possible listener base, the Apple earbuds is the way to go

[jamcat]

duplicate

[jamcat]

I would tend to agree that mixing on buds isn't ideal, but in a studio environment I see no reason why they'd be any more dangerous than headphones if used sensibly. Yes, the driver is closer to your ear - but you would reduce the volume to compensate and you're not battling with anywhere near the same levels of ambient noise as say, a commute.

I once saw someone wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD650s on a long haul flight... as a tinnitus sufferer, THAT made me shiver.

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

I've tried my HD650s when flying. It doesn't work too well.

The reason earbuds are more dangerous is not merely because the driver is closer to your eardrum. It is because by design, earbuds seal off your ear canal. The pressure created by the driver has nowhere to go. It's specifically that lack of an escape route for the air that is so bad for your hearing. (Newer Apple earbuds have tiny portholes that mitigate this problem to some degree.)

Open back headphones do not create that high-pressure zone in your ear canals.

The other thing to understand about hearing damage and volume is it is an equation of volume * duration = damage. You can induce the same amount of damage, or more, by prolonged listening with earbuds at lower volumes than short stints at higher volumes.

Typically a mixing session is going to fall under prolonged listening.

The way our ears work is fascinating. We have a built-in protection mechanism. When you go to a concert and everything is quiet and muffled for a few hours afterwards, that is because your ears have sort of like a 20dB pad that is triggered. That actually protects your hearing from acute damage. But prolonged and frequent exposure like that causes your ears to recover more slowly, and over time, less and less fully.

That pad mechanism relies on sound pressure in both ears in order to be tripped. That makes wearing a single in-ear monitor about the worst thing you can do to your hearing, up there with shooting a riffle without ear protection, because the exposed ear never goes into self-protection mode.

[andymcbain]

I've tried my HD650s when flying. It doesn't work too well.

The reason earbuds are more dangerous is not merely because the driver is closer to your eardrum. It is because by design, earbuds seal off your ear canal. The pressure created by the driver has nowhere to go. It's specifically that lack of an escape route for the air that is so bad for your hearing. (Newer Apple earbuds have tiny portholes that mitigate this problem to some degree.)

Open back headphones do not create that high-pressure zone in your ear canals.

The other thing to understand about hearing damage and volume is it is an equation of volume * duration = damage. You can induce the same amount of damage, or more, by prolonged listening with earbuds at lower volumes than short stints at higher volumes.

Typically a mixing session is going to fall under prolonged listening.

The way our ears work is fascinating. We have a built-in protection mechanism. When you go to a concert and everything is quiet and muffled for a few hours afterwards, that is because your ears have sort of like a 20dB pad that is triggered. That actually protects your hearing from acute damage. But prolonged and frequent exposure like that causes your ears to recover more slowly, and over time, less and less fully.

That pad mechanism relies on sound pressure in both ears in order to be tripped. That makes wearing a single in-ear monitor about the worst thing you can do to your hearing, up there with shooting a riffle without ear protection, because the exposed ear never goes into self-protection mode.

Thanks for the information - I think I've found the study you're referring to - https://secure.aes.org/forum/pubs/conve ... elib=15786 ... It would have been nice for my audiologist to have mentioned this!

I know of the volume * duration equation and use the exposure time calculator on the ACS website religiously - especially after I developed tinnitus https://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/tec ... calculator ... with it being impossible to calculate SPL using headphones and in-ears without specialist equipment I just have it as quiet as possible and hope for the best these days

[codec_spurt]

oio

[ghostwhistler]

But yeah, don't mix on Apple Earbuds... use them as a secondary reference

Secondary reference? They are not even legit as the 10th reference. How somebody actually can mention Apple's (any model) earplugs in the same sentence as "good sounding" is completely beyond my comprehension.

Maybe “reference” is the wrong word - but like any boom box, car sound system etc , they don’t have to sound “good” to be useful They serve the purpose of presenting your mix in the way many consumers are going to hear it.

Yeah, you are right, I have to agree on that. If you want your music to sound good to the largest possible listener base, the Apple earbuds is the way to go

It might be,but i really don't like earbuds. Very uncomfortable. I don't want to stick things in my ear

[chk071]

Apple ear buds, the old, wired ones sound pretty decent... Really, I swear this is not a joke ...
Compared to headphones in the sub 20 range those sound pretty good.

Earbuds are REALLY bad for your ears and prolonged use WILL do permanent hearing damage.
The iPod generation are all going to develop tinnitus as they age. People commit suicide over that.

Sorry, but, this is total nonsense. All of it. The volume is the issue, not the technology. And, I have tinnitus as well, way longer than I use ear buds, and, I haven't yet committed suicide over it.

Typical new age "I know nothing, but read this and that" stuff.

If you turn the volume and bass all the way up, you will damage your hearing, regardless of what tech your headphones or speakers use. THAT is the issue, not earbuds or not.

[wojf62902]

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting mixing on some of these really cheap headphone suggestions? i'm not saying people should mix on earbuds either but apple ones are pretty good for referencing because so many people listen to music through them. if your mixes (which you've mixed in studio headphones) sounds good on apple ones they will probably sound good to a lot of people. whether we like it or not a lot of people listen to music on these things so they serve a good purpose to have a pair laying around, and if you don't like apple you can always buy fake identical ones for even cheaper.

[Kammuri]

RE: initial ghostwhistle's post.

As probably everyone agree, the very cheap headphones aren't good for mixing or audio production in general (if this would be a main purpose of these) and £20 is not much tbh. Unless I wouldn't have any headphones (so i would need to buy something cheaply), I would personally try to save some money, and get a bit more expensive ones (no, i am not talking the £500 headphones, as that sounds ridiculous for the "bedroom" producers). I think the budget around £100 would give lots of good products (for the price) for home producers, which would have quite decent, natural sound. I have still old HD 280 Pro, which are not the most expensive headsets (and probably not the best now for the price) but can't complaint - won't replace them, unless they die

But yeah, if ghostwhistle doesn't want (or cannot) to spend (or save) a bit more £££, then suggestions about the headphones from the earlier posts should do... But earbuds ? No. I wouldn't buy earbud's type of headsets, for this purpose. Over- or On-Ear headsets win definitely for me personally.

[jamcat]

Apple ear buds, the old, wired ones sound pretty decent... Really, I swear this is not a joke ...
Compared to headphones in the sub 20 range those sound pretty good.

Earbuds are REALLY bad for your ears and prolonged use WILL do permanent hearing damage.
The iPod generation are all going to develop tinnitus as they age. People commit suicide over that.

Sorry, but, this is total nonsense. All of it. The volume is the issue, not the technology. And, I have tinnitus as well, way longer than I use ear buds, and, I haven't yet committed suicide over it.

Typical new age "I know nothing, but read this and that" stuff.

If you turn the volume and bass all the way up, you will damage your hearing, regardless of what tech your headphones or speakers use. THAT is the issue, not earbuds or not.

Yeah those new age white papers from the AES.


Sound Reproduction within a Closed Ear Canal: Acoustical and Physiological Effects

When a sound producing device such as insert earphones or a hearing aid is sealed in the ear canal, the fact that only a tiny segment of the sound wave can exist in this small volume at any given instant, produces an oscillation of the static pressure in the ear canal. This effect can greatly boosts the SPL in the ear canal, especially at low frequencies, a phenomena which we call Trapped Volume Insertion Gain (TVIG). In this study the TVIG has been found by numerical modeling as well as direct measurements using a Zwislocki coupler and the ear of a human subject, to be as much as 50dB greater than sound pressures typically generated while listening to sounds in an open environment. Even at moderate listening volumes, the TVIG can increase the low frequency SPL in the ear canal to levels where they produce excursions of the tympanic membrane that are 100 to 1000 times greater than in normal open-ear hearing. Additionally, the high SPL at low frequencies in the trapped volume of the ear canal, can easily exceed the threshold necessary to trigger the Stapedius reflex, a stiffing response of the middle ear, which reduces its sensitivity, and may lead to audio fatigue.