Finally joining in on some WUP hate.

[elxsound]

Their WUP system needs an overhaul so it actually makes sense.

Their normal price per plugin is still $30 or less depending on the multiple ways to get a lower price. WUP can be higher than the cost of the plugin originally purchased.

Some bundles are treated as a bundle when renewing WUP, while others like the Abbey Road bundle does not.

Again, there's just too much inconsistency here.

And I don't care that there's a crazy number of these threads. Maybe they should take note and do something. It's not like they're incapable of change. They have time to come up with new promo deals, change requirements when WUP becomes mandatory for Mac OS users (and no I don't fault them for that) and they've made significant changes to their website.

They're a company constantly adapting, with the lone exception being WUP.

[0degree]

Transfer fee? Yes, that is generally somewhat unethical I agree, but again first of all Waves are far from being the worst in that regard and secondly: how much are you going to ask/get for plugins that can regularly be purchased for less than 29$? (and buy two, then you get a third for free)

That's a fair point, but remember people that even pay 29$ don't know this and they don't know they might be affected when there will MacOS update. That was exactly my case - I had no idea I'll riding on a WUP carousel

The afore mentioned Fabfilter are certainly very different to that of course, as their transfer fee is already about twice as much as you have to pay for a Waves plugin. You don't see people complaining about that though. Some of they same people who keep whining about Waves/WUP have nothing but warm, cuddly love for Fabfilter.

That's why I'd think twice before buing Fabfilter products as well, but in case of Waves the low sale price is just a sale tactics and as mentioned there are "hidden fees" which what WUP exactly is. Also in case of FF there are dynamic discounts if you own some plugins so I'd be very careful with this comparison. And again - you're ignoring the fact that there are tons of devs without any fee at all.

[elxsound]

Transfer fee? Yes, that is generally somewhat unethical I agree, but again first of all Waves are far from being the worst in that regard and secondly: how much are you going to ask/get for plugins that can regularly be purchased for less than 29$? (and buy two, then you get a third for free)

That's a fair point, but remember people that even pay 29$ don't know this and they don't know they might be affected when there will MacOS update. That was exactly my case - I had no idea I'll riding on a WUP carousel

The afore mentioned Fabfilter are certainly very different to that of course, as their transfer fee is already about twice as much as you have to pay for a Waves plugin. You don't see people complaining about that though. Some of they same people who keep whining about Waves/WUP have nothing but warm, cuddly love for Fabfilter.

That's why I'd think twice before buing Fabfilter products as well, but in case of Waves the low sale price is just a sale tactics and as mentioned there are "hidden fees" which what WUP exactly is. Also in case of FF there are dynamic discounts if you own some plugins so I'd be very careful with this comparison. And again - you're ignoring the fact that there are tons of devs without any fee at all.

Except that what Jens wrote is not true. The Fabfilter transfer fee is $12 per license. Another big difference between Waves and Fabfilter, is that if you're in a bad spot, email them and they'll work with you.

[0degree]

Except that what Jens wrote is not true. The Fabfilter transfer fee is $12 per license. Another big difference between Waves and Fabfilter, is that if you're in a bad spot, email them and they'll work with you.

Good to know - thanks for clarification

[jens]

Except that what Jens wrote is not true. The Fabfilter transfer fee is $12 per license. Another big difference between Waves and Fabfilter, is that if you're in a bad spot, email them and they'll work with you.

Oh, yes, I stand corrected - for me it would be 10€ - tbh I just went by what I read here in this thread without verifying it. The impression I have of them made it (too) easy for me to believe it.

For Waves it would be 12-18$ per plugin.

[PieBerger]

*Sigh*

I give up.... on humans.

I think you're purposefully omitting the post that I write so let me quote it again:
(Why WUP is a problem)

Because:
- You pay for nothing which is unethical
- You have to pay WUP to resell the plugin which is based on the made up retail price (not sure how this is even legal)
- There are people like me that had no idea how it works
- You're stuck with tons of mixed versions and if you want to have one version for everything you have to WUP again
- You have a problem like the OP has which is a real thing
- For my account it's almost impossible to pick and "upgrade" to actually match WUP capped value and I can't even use third party retailers because they say "you have too many overlapping products"

....because you have to pay WUP for selling the plugin

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

Fab Filter charge 9e for a license transfer, which is quite reasonable. Waves want to charge me $110 in WUP ($70) plus fees ($40), to transfer my Gold license. It's available on sale for as low as $99...

Edit: The FF fee is flat rate for single plugins or bundles. The Pro Bundle is approximately the same price as the Gold, comparing retail prices, but FF don't charge you more as a result, nor do they insist you pay a yearly fee just to be eligible to sell your license nor does making your license eligible for sale, cost more than the license itself. FF transfer costs are fair and proportional, WUP is daylight robbery.

[jens]

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

The answer is really simple - lots of devs don't charge money at all, some of them charge reasonable amounts and then we have Waves. I just checked my account and if wanted to sell Gold bundle I'd have to pay 90$ for the transfer. Seriously?

One thing that has not been mentioned yet:

if you WUP a bundle (AR aside, that is a special case), you will receive licenses for all the plugins they have added to the it since your WUP expired. So depending on when that has been, the current Gold you update to is not at all the same Bundle anymore as the one you purchased and own.

Waves lists the following plugins/collections as new additions to the original Gold:

New Gold Plugins

Sibilance
Electric Grand 80 Piano
Eddie Kramer Drum Channel
VU Meter
eMo F2 Filter
eMo Generator
eMo Q4 Equalizer
Vitamin Sonic Enhancer
GTR3 Software
V-Series
MV2
H-Comp
H-Delay
Waves Tune LT
IR-L
Doubler

PLUS they constantly make you offers to upgrade your individual plugins to Bundles, PLUS WUP is capped to 240$, so depending on what and how many and which bundles you own and when the last time has been that you WUPed them, these 240$ can mean A LOT of new plugins.

[0degree]

How is paying for WUP to sell a waves plugin different than paying 25$ per plugin when you transfer your Plugin Alliance plugins or paying $50 (!) Per plugin to transfer a Fabfilter plugin? I don't get it

The answer is really simple - lots of devs don't charge money at all, some of them charge reasonable amounts and then we have Waves. I just checked my account and if wanted to sell Gold bundle I'd have to pay 90$ for the transfer. Seriously?

One thing that has not been mentioned yet:

if you WUP a bundle (AR aside, that is a special case), you will receive licenses for all the plugins they have added to the it since your WUP expired. So depending on when that has been, the current Gold you update to is not at all the same Bundle anymore as the one you purchased and own.

Waves lists the following plugins/collections as new additions to the original Gold:

New Gold Plugins

Sibilance
Electric Grand 80 Piano
Eddie Kramer Drum Channel
VU Meter
eMo F2 Filter
eMo Generator
eMo Q4 Equalizer
Vitamin Sonic Enhancer
GTR3 Software
V-Series
MV2
H-Comp
H-Delay
Waves Tune LT
IR-L
Doubler

It's actually Gold + RenMaxx bundle and all of the above plugins are already there so I don't know what you're referring to. Also if I wanted to sell it I don't care what's added, I just want to sell it

PLUS they constantly make you offers to upgrade your individual plugins to Bundles, PLUS WUP is capped to 240$, so depending on what and how many and which bundles you own and when the last time has been that you WUPed them, these 240$ can mean A LOT of new plugins.

In my case I have exactly 0 new plugins which means I pay for nothing and please don't conflate bundle updates to WUP - it's a completely different story

[jens]

So that probably means you purchased it not that long ago... I clearly said it depends on when you purchased it.

Also if I wanted to sell it I don't care what's added, I just want to sell it

Except of course that it obviously might significantly change the value of what you are trying to sell.

please don't conflate bundle updates to WUP - it's a completely different story

I don't - I merely pointed out that WUPing can mean that you get new plugins if you own any bundles.

[jens]

PLUS, of course, you also get a voucher for the same amount you spend on WUP.

In the end it basically boils down to this:

if you really like Waves' plugins, and are interested in staying with them in the long run and also to keep purchasing new plugins from them, WUP is not much of an issue at all.

If that does however NOT apply to you, then WUP may seems like a serious showstopper to you. But in that case that's good too, as it makes it easier for you to stay away from them.

Or, to say it differently: some like to use Waves-plugins, others like to complain about WUP.

[0degree]

I don't - I merely pointed out that WUPing can mean that you get new plugins if you own any bundles.

That's why the WUP gives me nothing because I mostly have singles, so I'd have to upgrade to bundle, then upgrade to another bundle, then WUP and WUP all over again...

PLUS, of course, you also get a voucher for the same amount you spend on WUP.

I this you've omitted an important bit of information here:

For every dollar you spend on a renewed Waves Update Plan, you will receive a Waves voucher for the same amount. This voucher may be redeemed for up to 50% toward any bundle, application (e.g. MultiRack, eMotion LV1), or upgrade, or up to 25% toward any plugin, off the price at the time of redemption. The voucher may not be combined with multiple plugin discounts. The voucher cannot be used toward hardware, hardware/software combos, subscriptions (including 5-Pack), courses, the Abbey Road Studio 3 plugin, or Waves Update Plan coverage. The voucher can be used for one order only and does not carry a remaining balance. Multiple vouchers may not be combined.

So it's not like 1 to 1 return value from WUP and can be used only once

I think it's probably about time to leave those plugins as they are and move on to some other companies. It's too bad because I really like them

[giant_panda]

nv

[jens]

That's why the WUP gives me nothing because I mostly have singles, so I'd have to upgrade to bundle, then upgrade to another bundle, then WUP and WUP all over again...

Which is why I pointed out that they often offer discounted upgrades to bundles. All the plugins contained in the bundle then have WUP for another years, which already includes the plugins you already owned and which are part of this bundle.

So it's not like 1 to 1 return value from WUP and can be used only once

I never said it was. But e.g. if and when you want to purchase a new Waves plugin that just came out and is currently 35$ you could WUP any of your plugins where the WUP fee is 12$ and the WUP for it would only cost you 3.25$ - that just as one simple example.

[arkmabat]

Use the personalized upgrade deals and you get free plugins with your update. Right now, that's pack completion plugins AND the spend x for x free plugins

[Ploki]

I stand corrected then. But anyway 90$ for a signle bundle is a joke and don't tell me there's 20+ plugins there - it's just one license transfer And again - I had no idea that I have to have WUP in order to sell anything

sorry i was talking about PA, not sure about Waves.