MDelayMB Dry Parameter?

[Hexspa]

Let me rewrite this.

MDelayMB has a dry slider. However, unless the dry slider in Meters and Utilities is set to 0%, it only turns down the dry signal by a few dB (despite the slider saying 'silence' at its minimum value). As it stands, you can make the effect totally wet but only when it's configured in this way.

Unless I'm missing something, you have to use two dry sliders to make the effect totally wet. Maybe this isn't intended behavior. Further, even when setting the Meters' dry slider to 0%, adjusting the dry slider in the main edit interface (Band Dry Slider) changes the level of the delays when in any mode. I think a dry slider should not affect the level of the wet signal.

Ultimately, you can get the result you desire, it just ends up taking more knob turns. First you have to make sure your Meters' Dry slider is set to 0%. Then you have to continually make adjustments to the level of your delays if you change the Band Dry slider.

How I expect it to work is that the Band Dry slider either brings the dry signal to unity (preferably an option to add 3-6dB) or allows you to bring it to silence independently of the Meters' Dry slider (because 0x=0). It should also not affect the level of the wet signal at all.

What I think should happen is that any Band Dry Slider set to silence should stay at silence because that's the maximum value you have set. The Meters' Dry slider goes to '100%' and that should mean 100% of whatever level you have the Band Dry Slider set to. So if Band 1 is set to -10dB then 100% of that is -10dB and 0% of that is silence. This way I can use the Meter Dry Slider to globally adjust the dry level of my bands. As it stands, there's no such clear relationship.

Lastly, if I may, I'll throw in a feature request. I think it'd be intuitive to have a Wet slider on each band as well. Again, can I accomplish my result without it? Yes. Does it make more sense to grab a Wet slider than adjust the delays? Yes. I believe that this Band Wet Slider should be scaled via the Meter Wet Slider in the same way I previously suggested.

TL;DR - There are two Dry sliders in DelayMB without a clear relationship to one another. The Meter Dry slider should scale the dB level set by each Band's Dry slider but it doesn't. Each band should also have a Wet control.

Thanks.

[MeldaProduction]

Please post some settings, all seems working fine here.

[Hexspa]

Please post some settings, all seems working fine here.

Hi. Here's a simple project with MDelayMB and one snare. There is also a readme which describes the current behavior and my proposed change. Please check it out and consider it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j147zs7quthmo ... ry.7z?dl=0

Here's the preset for MDelayMB in case it doesn't load:

Code: Select all

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I think the critical thing that I'm not making clear is this: if a Band Dry slider is set to 'Silence' then - no matter what the Meters and Utilities Dry Slider is set to - that band should produce no output; or at least no dry output. Silence should mean just that - silence.

As it stands, the Band Dry Slider does not silence the band when the Meters' Dry Slider is set to 100% - but it should.

Thank you

[Hexspa]

Friendly bump.

[Held]

I think the critical thing that I'm not making clear is this: if a Band Dry slider is set to 'Silence' then - no matter what the Meters and Utilities Dry Slider is set to - that band should produce no output; or at least no dry output. Silence should mean just that - silence.

As it stands, the Band Dry Slider does not silence the band when the Meters' Dry Slider is set to 100% - but it should.

Thank you

I think as it works now, the band's dry sliders are part of the overall wet signal. So setting them to 0 has no influence on the utility's dry slider.

It looks like you want the utility's' dry slider as a multiplier for the band's dry sliders? I don't now if that wouldn't be even more confusing. But I guess that would make it easier to control the dry level while keeping the relationship between bands intact.

MReverbMB has a dry/wet control on all bands. I guess more consistency across plugins would be nice.

[Hexspa]

From what I can tell, all the Utility Dry Slider does is boost the dry level above unity. When it's at 0%, the Band Dry Slider functions as I would expect. That means I can generally get the result I want. Except:

1. I can't individually adjust how much each band contributes to the overall wet signal.
2. I can't scale the levels of all bands - neither dry nor wet components - like a 'global' slider without setting up a multiparameter.

In my opinion, for something as fundamental as dry/wet, I shouldn't have to make custom assignments - especially when there is, basically, one unused or misused control already available (Utility Dry Slider).

And as far as MReverbMB goes, I feel like that's a pretty good solution. It has less controls and I seem to be able to accomplish what I want more intuitively. Of course, it's different from MDelayMB so it's hard to compare right this moment.

I could live with either the MReverbMB single Dry/Wet control or a reworking of the MDelayMB two-slider system. The former is probably cleaner and more intuitive for most people so that's probably better.

Here's a funny thing: when MReverbMB only has one band, the Band Mute Button doesn't do anything! Same for MDelayMB. Maybe I should make a separate thread.

Thanks.

[Held]

1. I can't individually adjust how much each band contributes to the overall wet signal.

There's a horizontal line in the middle of each bands that controls the overall volume.

And the help of the dry slider tells you to use the volume of each tab to control the amount of wet signal.

And as far as MReverbMB goes, I feel like that's a pretty good solution. It has less controls and I seem to be able to accomplish what I want more intuitively. Of course, it's different from MDelayMB so it's hard to compare right this moment.

The behavior is essentially the same, though. If you set each band to 100% wet and the utility to 0% wet (100% dry), there should be no signal at all according to your preferences because the utility multiplies all wet signal with 0 and the dry signal of each band is 0 as well.

But the actual behavior is 100% dry signal of the plugin.

[Hexspa]

First thing is this: Nothing matters unless the Utility Dry Slider and the Band Dry Slider interact better in MDelayMB. Here are the settings you can use to test for yourself:

Utility Wet 0%
Utility Dry 60%
Band Dry Slider does nothing.
///
Utility Wet 100%
Utility Dry 0%
Band Dry is the dry half of a dry/wet control. The other half is the Utility Wet -

unless

- the Utility Wet is 0% and then there is just no signal.

---
Me responding to your statements:


The horizontal lines are basically faders (+-24dB) for the bands.

The help of which dry slider? Band or utility? Neither one controls the amount of wet signal.

You can't set each Band Wet in MDelayMB - there is no wet control.

---
Summary:
I don't think we're looking at this the same way. Right now I'm at the end of my day and a bit foggy. If I misunderstood you, please let me know. However, if my logic has integrity, please let it be implemented.

Thanks.

[Held]

I think it makes sense to have a dry signal that's actually dry and not split into bands and recombined like it would be if there was only the dry signal from individual bands.

But if you can convince Vojtech to implement your system, I'm not gonna fight it. Both are workable.

Band Dry is the dry half of a dry/wet control. The other half is the Utility Wet -

No, the other half is the gain of each tab. From the help of the bands dry slider:

Dry controls the amount of the dry signal in the output. Use Gain to control each of the tap outputs, thus the amount of wet signal.

Not very intuitive, I know, but perfectly workable.

[Hexspa]

From what I'm understanding of what you're saying, you seem to think that the gain sliders that overlay the FFT display control the wet signal somehow. In MDelayMB, they certainly do not. From how it sounds in MDistortionMB, these are basically trim pots i.e. pre-effect level controls.

Come to think of it, I wish we could toggle them pre or post. Pre, it makes sense to have +-24dB but Post could switch to a fader.

Anyway, Held, I'm not sure if we're going to agree here lol. We don't seem to be talking about the same facilities of the plugin. I feel like the one thing we agree on is that, yes, the plugin is usable but, also yes, it could be better and/or more straightforward.

If we can agree on the simplest solution, I vote for making MDelayMB have the same Dry/Wet layout as MReverbMB.

Thanks

[Held]

Did you actually read the part of the manual I quoted? I didn't write that and it has nothing to do with the band's input gain from the band editor.

And the Controls in MReverbMB still won't give you the behavior you described in the first post.

But yeah, I guess this conversation is going nowhere. Good luck convincing Vojtech to change it.

From how it sounds in MDistortionMB, these are basically trim pots i.e. pre-effect level controls.

You don't have to guess, by the way. Hover your mouse over it and press F1 (or ctrl/cmd+H) and it'll tell you that the horizontal bars are input gain controls

[Hexspa]

Thanks, Held. All I can say is I was trying what you were saying. I'll try to reread the documentation.

Cheers.

[Held]

The manual is saying that this controls the amount of wet signal you get. Does it not work for you?

mdelaymb_wet_gain.png

[Hexspa]

Yes. That takes care of the wet issue which was kind of a secondary point. I think I got distracted with this dry slider behavior and tacked a 'wet knob' request in passing.

I want to reiterate that I've already agreed that the plugin seems to let you do whatever you imagine. My main point was a few of the implementations - particularly the Band/Utility Dry Slider relationship, the dotted delay times, and the band pre-effect gain - could possibly be improved, corrected or expanded upon.

Thanks.