Which M1 Macbook for Bitwig?

[antic604]

"Wait for 14/16'' M1X/M2 models" notwithstanding, would you go with Air or is the 13'' Pro a better choice?

I'm considering 16/256GB model of either. I only need Bitwig, few plugins, no sample packs or sample-heavy libraries (e.g. Kontakt), etc. The price difference is quite significant: Pro is 18% more expensive (or Air is 15% cheaper). Other than main components - CPU & GPU, RAM, SSD - they have the same screen, same keyboard, same connectivity options (and I only need headphones + Launchpad X, really), Air has actual function keys instead of touch strip, but a smaller battery and slightly smaller touchpad. I like the looks of the Pro more, but both are more than fine.

The biggest difference that is important is the passive cooling on Air vs. fans in Pro 13'' and potential throtting. The best info I could find is the usually very reliable notebookcheck:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-Mac ... eats-intel

There the Pro 13'' (red) maintains the same performance over time, whereas Air (gray) drops by 23% (or Pro is higher by 19%). So those differences are bigger than price differences, which was surprising:

pro vs. air.png

So, which one would you get?

If you do have M1 Air already, is throttling a real issue if you're not running heavy sessions (I don't)?

[quincy]

I've been wondering about this as well (as I'm sure many of us have). HAve you considered a Mac Mini? I'm tempted because the price saving is significant and the refurb models direct from Apple are about 15-20% saving on brand new. I've had a refurb MBP since 2014 and it's been a trooper. In terms of price saving ,I'm possibly thinking of it this way - I buy a refurb Mini (or Air) to save a bit of money and then I upgrade a bit sooner, say in 3-4 years instead of 5-6.

It sounds like you've done your research anyway and the majority of reviews I've seen broadly seem to indiacate that the M1 macs are all very capable for audio, fast and quiet etc. Of course there are still some issues to iron out with native comaptibility for plugins but that's just par for the course, you can either buy now or wait 12-18 months.

Also I hate the touch bar. It's an expensive waste of space. Some of the extra cost for the MBP is towards that stupid gimmick!

Anyway I would broadly suggest that in terms of geting a new, fast laptop you can't go too far wrong. A lot of the annoying Youtube reviews are just doing stupid benchmarks that don't reflect reality (render 20 3D videos at the same time etc). If you have modest DAW needs and aren't running hundreds of extra VST that may have compatibility issues then you'll probably be fine. Unless you've got a very recent high-end laptop already, you're going to get a decent performance gain with any M1 machine.

[antic604]

I've been wondering about this as well...

Thanks!

Addressing your particular points:

1) I specifically want a laptop (so no external screen) that I can quickly take out & hide when not in use, as I don't have any dedicated "studio" space and probably won't have for couple of years until the kids are out

2) I don't run big sessions and especially not a lot of VSTs (despite having way too many...). Also, I try to stay Bitwig-native recently. The plan is to install just the plugins that are Apple Silicon native, anyway. And sell - or forget - the rest

3) I have a pretty good 8th gen i7-8750h laptop right now, but:
a) it's often occupied by my wife (and she's making a mess out of it, too ),
b) being a gaming laptop it's big, heavy and runs out of power after 2-2.5h of moderate use
c) most benchmarks I've seen (from those dreaded YT "creatives") indicate that the performance would be the same, or even better on M1 especially in native mode
d) I never used any Apple gear, so I'm curious to try

[ericj23]

I did the same dance of what to get but settled on a mini - I guess because my computer space is full of monitors already!

However, I was leaning to the air as it is cheaper. I seem to remember seeing/reading that the loss of performance is less noticeable over time with audio processing than with video. The stop start nature of audio, and in truth often not running at full pelt means the processor is not running that hot and has time to cool down. Using a benchmark that is designed to run the computer as hard as it can, constantly, will give an unrepresentative impression of the real world changes in performance.

But I can see the appeal of the macpro - I think the battery is bigger too. But for me as it was pretty much never going to leave the house ....

[Kypresso]

There's a german producer called john Sine, he does a daily blog on youtube which i love watching, he bought a new mac air about 6 months ago. Heres a video he did about how well its working for him.

[quincy]

d) I never used any Apple gear, so I'm curious to try

On this point - most people I know (including myself) had a short period of adjustment going from Windows to OSX and some minor annoyances with some keyboard layout differences but I don't know anybody who has gone back.

I know Apple get grief about price and lack of ability to upgrade but I think a lot of that is misleading. I'm a so-called "power user" in the sense that Im a software engineer so I often run a lot of CPU and memory-heavy tools, have 30 or 40 browser tabs open at a time etc. All I can say is that a lot of my friends and colleagues also have the same Apple laptops they've had for 5+ years and they still run very well.

If you buy a computer with a decent spec and it lasts you 5 years or more, is the ability to upgrade really an issue?! You'll find that you have less issues with software updates and patches than on windows and if you want to keep a macbook "clean" it's very easy to do so. The old adage that it mostly "just works" is true - software written for Apple hardware doesn't need to be concerned with lots of hardware compatibility and runing on different motherboards or gfx cards or whatever. Yes, there is some inherent limitation but what you're really doing is paying a premium price for a premium machine that will run well and last for a good while.

With the new M1 chips you are really getting a lot of power for the money and amazing battery life (if you need that). If you buy enough RAM and HDD in the first place then you aren't likely to need to upgrade for a good long while. My late 2013 MBP is nearly 8 years old and it still runs very well with 8GB of RAM. I think a 16GB M1 machine will be very capable and stand up very well against other laptops in the market.

[antic604]

Heres a video he did about how well its working for him.

[carlca]

d) I never used any Apple gear, so I'm curious to try

The very first thing that you'll want to do is to install Scroll Reverser by Nick Moore https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/. When I moved to Macs after 30 years of Windows (Windows 1.03 was my first contact with Windows in 1986!) I had so much muscle memory built up that I just couldn't deal with the way that Apple inverted (!) the scrolling.

[carlca]

I know Apple get grief about price and lack of ability to upgrade but I think a lot of that is misleading. I'm a so-called "power user" in the sense that Im a software engineer so I often run a lot of CPU and memory-heavy tools, have 30 or 40 browser tabs open at a time etc. All I can say is that a lot of my friends and colleagues also have the same Apple laptops they've had for 5+ years and they still run very well.

One of the things I love about my Mac Pro is the fact that the system is self-repairing in the sense that if you leave it switched on at night, it will use the time wisely to carry out disk defragging and other maintenance tasks that have to be explicitly performed on Windows. My machine is as speedy and responsive as it was 4 years ago when I bought it as a reconditioned machine for £500

[pdxindy]

d) I never used any Apple gear, so I'm curious to try

The very first thing that you'll want to do is to install Scroll Reverser by Nick Moore https://pilotmoon.com/scrollreverser/. When I moved to Macs after 30 years of Windows (Windows 1.03 was my first contact with Windows in 1986!) I had so much muscle memory built up that I just couldn't deal with the way that Apple inverted (!) the scrolling.

You can pick the direction of scrolling in the system preferences...

[EnGee]

Wrong thread! Sorry!

[carlca]

You can pick the direction of scrolling in the system preferences...

The big advantage with the Pilot Moon solution is that it lets you control the mouse scrolling and the trackpad scrolling independently.

[pdxindy]

You can pick the direction of scrolling in the system preferences...

The big advantage with the Pilot Moon solution is that it lets you control the mouse scrolling and the trackpad scrolling independently.

Yeah, they are tied together in system preferences. I have zero interest in controlling them independently.

[thelizard]

I have an M1 Air 16 GB and love it. I've flown a few times with it and used Bitwig (before it was M1 optimized!), VCV, XCode, Voltage Modular (including Dev), etc. After a 3-4 hour flight, I still had around 70% battery left. I haven't really hit any situations where I've felt "boy, this feels limited".

[carlca]

You can pick the direction of scrolling in the system preferences...

The big advantage with the Pilot Moon solution is that it lets you control the mouse scrolling and the trackpad scrolling independently.

Yeah, they are tied together in system preferences. I have zero interest in controlling them independently.

I'll come clean. I got that information just now from the software's author. When I first got my Mac, I didn't even bother to investigate the system preferences, I just needed an instant solution and it was free. I too have never used a trackpad